HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Minutes 03-17-80 TUSTIN PLANNING AGENCY
Minutes of Regular and Continued Meeting
March 17, 1980
The Planning Agency held a regular meeting Monday, March 17, 1980 in the Council
Chambers of the Tusfin City Hall, 300 Centennial Way, Tusfin, California.
The meeting was called to order at 3 p.m., by Vice-chairman Saltarelli in the
excused absence of Chairman Schuster who was affendin9 a function af the mili-
tary air base.
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag was led by Mr. Sharp and the invocation
was given by Mrs. Kennedy.
ROLL CALL
Present:
Vice-chairman Salfarelli, Sharp, Kennedy, and Welsh
Absent:
Chairman Schuster
Also present:
Dan Blankenship, City Administrator
Mike Brofemarkle, Community Development Director
Alan Warren, Senior Planner
James Rourke, City Attorney
Midge Mehl, Recordin9 Secretary
Other staff members: 8
General audience: 3
~INUTES
The minutes of the regular meeting held March 3, 1980 were approved as written,
with the waivin9 of readin9 same.
INITIAk PUBklC HEARING
~endmenf to U~e Permi.t. 78-18
Applicant:
Location:
Request:
Design II Signmakers on behalf of Orange Tree Realty
13132 Newport Avenue
Authorization for commercial signing in the Planned Con~nunify
District, on a professional office buil4ing as a modification
on the Master Plan of Signage for Packers Square.
Mr. Brofemarkle said the master plan of signing for building "D" did not desig-
nate specific use so if was deemed to go undor the standards of the Professional
District. This would restrict signs fo a maximum of 6 square feet in area.
The applicant has already installed a 24 square foot decorative window sign and
is requesting an additional 14.6 square feet in area. Staff concerns would
center around the fact that the commercial portion of the Center is only author-
ized 17.3 up fo a maximum of 25.3 square feet per lease space depending on size,
in accordance with the submitted sign plan. Approval of this request would
grant more sign area fo a professional office than permiffedfor the commercial
tenants, possibly leading to requests from the commercial businesses for more
signing. Also, in the professional building itself, at what point would other
uses in the office building not be eligible for sign increases.
Vice-chairman Salfarelli asked if this request were not approved, would they
receive any signin9 at all.
Mr, Brofemarkle said currently they would be granted 6 square feet, under
Code, as a PR office building,
Mr. Welsh asked when the development was created, was it intended to be com-
mercial or professional.
Mr. Brotemarkle said it was indicated as a professional office and real estate
offices, in 1973 had been determined to be a permitted use in the PR zone, by
a finding of fact by the Planning Agency, subject to compliance with sign re-
quirements.
Vice-chairman Saltarelli declared the public hearing open and asked if there
was anyone who wished fo speak in favor or opposition to the Amendment to Use
Planning Agency
Minutes - March 17, 1980
page 2.
Permit 78-~8.
Mr. David Kaplan, representing Design II Signmakers and Orange Tree Realty,
said the window sign was installed a little bit after the fact and he had two
photos which he would like fo show to the Agency, which indicated that it was
quite nondescript. We are trying to get permission for the Agency fo look af
this as an interior appointment as opposed fo exterior signage.
Mr. Brofemarkle said although this might be considered a very decorative
aesthetic type of window treatment, if still, by code definition, constitutes
a sign of 24 square feet in area.
Mr. Welsh asked i¢, within tho Sign Code, internal signs were permifl'ed as
being not counted as overall signing.
Mr. Brotemarkle said it's riel' counted as part of the sign area.
Mr. Warren said if actually applied to the window, it's considered a window sign.
If inside the building, viewed from the street, not attached to the window,
it's been interpreted fo be exempt. This is actually a window sign with
characters on the window and considered as a countable area, under the Sign Code.
Under discussion, Mr. Brofemarkle said that this is a '9ray' area of the code;
however, we are dealing with a PC master signage plan for the Center and not
solely a code consideration.
Mr. Kaplan said the sign, as requested in the use permit, is of the same dimensions
as the commercial users have, which seemed fo be acceptable under the master plan.
Vice-chairman Saltarelli declared the public hearing closed and asked the
pleasure of the Agency. He said if seemed fo him that there were two questions;
(1) whether or not fo allow one sign as a window sign and (2) whether or not fo
:llow an additional commercial sign on a professional building.
Staff indicated that what was requested was still less than permitted by the
City's sign code and pointed out that specific provisions of any resolution
prepared for the next meeting, if the request were approved, would detail appli-
cability of tho master plan modification fo all tenants in building "D".
Mr. Salfarelli said he felt there would have [o be limitations or tenants would
think that if you need more signage all you have to do is fake your store
front and make it a stained glass window.
Discussion was held on the difference between commercial and professional
centers under different zoning classifications, determination of which standards
apply,and parking impact.
MOTION by Saltarelli to approve amendment fo Use Permit No. 78-~8.
The motion dies for lack of a second.
Mr. Salfarelli said his thinking was fhaf as long as if didn't violate tho
Sign Code it could be approved. There is already a problem in that Center,
it's a difficult place fo do business due to parking problems. As long as
if doesn't exceed what any other commercial uses would be allowed and a stipu-
lation is put in any resolution of approval that any other uses, permitted
such signage in the professional building would be specifically designated,
approval should be granted. He asked how many square feet of signing would
be allowed in commercially zoned areas under our Sign Code.
Mr. Warren said if this use was in a commercial building, a sign of 75 square
feet would be permitted.
Mr. Saltarelli said that means the request is for half of the maximum allowable.
Planning Agency
Minutes - March 17, 1980
page 3.
MOTION by Sharp, SECONDED by Saltarelli, fo approve the amendment to Use
Permit 78-18, as requested in that this is a use which is authorized in the
commercial zone and that commercial signing is appropriate, and Further that
staff develop an appropriate resolution for action by the Agency af the next
meeting.
Mr. Welsh asked if the staff felt this action would put the City in an awkward
position concerning parking regulations and needs. If was concerning this
proJect that we discussed the parking problems. Would we be prostituting our
requirement for parking if we were to grant this particular request?
Mr. Brotemarkle said no, because a real estate office, the point in case, is
still a professional office. We are only considering signage. Had the de-
veloper initially purported a plan fo provide equal signing for all the tenants,
the City may have approved such a request because on an overall basis if would
still be less than permitted by code.
Mr. Welsh said he could support the motion based on the fact that we are not
jeopardizing our parking as we would require of another developer and that if
is still within our own ordinance.
Mrs. Kennedy asked if there would be a signing problem if a bank, escrow office,
or similar professional use located in buildin9 "D".
Mr. Brotemarkle said the staff would propose, as part of the resolution, affect-
ing the master plan of signage for building "D" fhaf such approval would be
only for specified commercial uses.
Vice-chairman Salfarelli asked the pleasure of the Agency on Mr. Sharp's motion.
AYES:
NeE S:
ABSENT:
Sharp, Kennedy, Welsh, and Saltarelli
None
Schuster
Mr. Salfarelli said he tended to be less and less sympathetic to requests
after the fact. Developers submit their master sign standards, but if ought
to be pointed out they could request more area under our existing code so we
don't have to be granting so many changes. When somebody signs a lease they
should be well prepared to live by what sign area is permitted.
Mr. Welsh said it would be appropriate that the requirement for commercial
signin9 be well explained for future prelects, so we don't have a developer
affempfin9 fo circumvent our parkin9 requirements lhrough a sign request.
pUBLIC CONCERNS
G~ll~ry 9f Homes - Signs
Mr. Vic Batfiafo, representing Gallery of Homes, said he would like fo address
the Agency concerning notification fo Irvine Boulevard real estate brokers
about signs, indicating they should remove "open house or open office" signs in
fronfyards of their offices. If is not in accordance with the City Sign Ordi-
nance Code No. 684 and staff had indicated the Agency was the source of possible
changes in the ordinance to allow such signs. The signs are small but when
someone is driving down Irvine and looking for a real estate office there is a
sign that says "open" and pointing afa door. We have an identify problem with
only a six square foot sign. What we would like fo have is fo be able to fell
people we are open and who we are. I'm speaking for a number of realtors with
the same problem and illegal signs.
Mr. Saltarelli asked if he was talking about a moveable sign.
Mr. Baffiato said yes, it is taken in each evening. The landlord will not
allow us fo have the sign out all the time. Maybe a one by two foot sign
Planning Agency
Minutes - March 17, 1980
page 4.
which would be a stake-type and removable should be permitted; he didn't
think if would offend anyone. In his building he would be the only one that
would have a need for that sign, so not many would result.
Mr. Salfarelli said Tusfin Associates had been doing this for years with a
little wrought iron sign saying "Tustin Associates" and now Southland Realtors
has a little arrow fhaf says "open" and they set if up every morning on the
grass, in fi-onf of their door.
Mr. Brofemarkle said there has been a proliferation of these signs in the
setback area. We've had approximately six notifications sent out, at the
present time. This was discussed back in October of 1973, the initial time
when the concern was brought up in the PR District. He said real estate sales
offices were not a permitted use in the PR zone. In '73 there was a finding
of fact by the Planning Commission that established real estate offices as
appropriate uses in the PR District, however, subject to the sign control of
the district.
Mr. Brotemarkle said granting special relief to permit such signs created a
problem as fo whom and under what circumstances they would be permitted.
There could be a tremendous proliferation of signin9 and other office uses
would likely want similar consideration. It's been in the last month that
staff has sent notifications out fo the various businesses that are puffing
these signs out front.
Mr. Salfarelli said he would like to authorize the staff fo look info this
problem and brin9 a recommendation back fo the Agency, with some more infer-
marion. He said he felt if is a problem that needs fo be addressed as if has
been done for quite some time and hasn't heard a lot of complaints about if,
but he would like fo have this agendized within thirty days.
Mr. Brotemarkle asked if it was the Agency's desire that staff suspend any
enforcement action until after staff had a chance fo review if.
Mr. Salfarelli said yes. The Agency agreed that a study should be made of
this matter and a recommendation from the staff be brought back to the Agency.
OLD BUSI NESS
Resolution No. 1885 - Steelcase
Mr. Brotemarkle said he had been in contact with both representatives of
Sfeelcase and The Irvine Company. The Irvino Company would not approve more
than one sign, however they would approve one sign in excess of 200 square
feet. They would prohibit an additional sign on Bell Avenue. Since approval
by the Irvine Company was a condition of the Resolution, he asked if the Reso-
lution should be amended fo coincide with what the Irvine Company ultimately
approved.
Mr. Salfarelli said the motion to approve Variance 80-4 was fo authorize what
tho Irvine Industrial Complex permitted in order fo allow companies in the
area to bo compatible and remain competitive. In one sense they are more re-
strictive and another more liberal than anticipated. The City's action should
be in agreement with the Irvine Company's action.
MOTION by Saltarelli, SECONDED by Kennedy, to continue Resolution No. 1883
until staff could modify the resolution to conform fo what the Irvine Company
would authorize.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Sharp, Kennedy, Welsh, and Saltarelli
None
Schuster
Planning Agency
Minutes - March 17, 1980
page 5.
Resolqtion No. 1884 - Tusfin Arms II
MOTION by Saltarelli, SECONDED by Welsh, to approve Resolution Noi 1884.
AYES: Sharp, Kennedy, Welsh, and Salfarelli
NOES: None
ABSENT: Schuster
Resolution No. 1885 - Stewart Development Company
Mr. Salfarelli asked if the Agency wanted fo hold this off until the evening
meeting when Mr. Schuster would be in attendance.
Mr. Welsh said it would probably be appropriate to continue the matter.
Mr. Salfarelli asked the pleasure of lhe Agency.
MOTION by Welsh, SECONDED by Kennedy, fo continue Resolution No. 1885 until
the 7:30 p.m. meeting this date.
AYES: Sharp, Kennedy, Welsh, and Salfarelli
NOES: None
ABSENT: Schuster
NEW BUSINESS
None
CORRESPONDENCE
None
STAFF CONCERNS
None
A~ENC¥ CONCERNS
None
AD ~ OURN/~ENT
There bein9 no further business to come before the Plannin9 Agency af this
time Vice-chairman Saltarelli adjourned the meefin9 at 4:03 p.m., fo meet
again for a 7:30 p.m. meefin9 this date.
The Plannin9 Agency reconvened at 7:32 p.m., with Chairman Schuster conducfin9
fha meefin9 and with all members present.
Chairman Schuster said a matter was held over from the afternoon meefin9 in
order that a full Agency would be in attendance fo vote on the item.
Re~olutiQn No. 1885 (continued) - Stewart Development Company
MOTION by Salfarelli, SECONDED by Sharp, fo approve Resolution No. 1885.
Mr. Sharp asked about fha design of this buildin9.
Mr. Brotemarkle said he had received no final answers, but they are 9oin9 fo
fake into consideration, in fha final design, the color the reflective 91ass
and the final design would come back fo the Agency for Action.
Mr. Sharp indicated he had suggested fo Mr. Brofemarkle the use of bronze
anodized extrusions and bronze 91ass to give a lighter effect.
Mr. Salfarelli questioned if numberin9 of fha Resolution was correct. He
said fha agenda indicated Holt and Irvine, yet the Resolution is for 14742
Newport Avenue.
Planning Agency
Minutes - March 17, 1980
page 6.
Mr. Brofemarkle indicated that the agenda designation of Holt-lrvine was in
error. Resolution No. 1885 is for the Stewart development at Newport and
Sycamore, approved af the last regular Agency meeting.
The Chairman asked if everyone was clear on the matter and hearing affirmative
replies he asked the pleasure of the Agency on Mr. Salfarelli's motion.
AYES:
NOES:
Sharp, Saltarelli, Kennedy, Welsh, and Schuster
None
AD~OURN/~NT
There being no further business to come before the Planning Agency, Chairman
Schuster declared the meefin9 adjourned at 7:38 p.m., fo meet again for a
regular meefin9 fo be held April 7, 1980 at 3 p.m. in the Council Chambers of
the Tustin City Hall.
Don Salfar, c:~-r'~, V, ce-cha~rman
Stephen L.V Schuster, Chairman
M.I. Mehl
Recording Secretary