HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Minutes 09-22-69 MINUTES OF A REGULAR }~ETING
TUSTIN PLANNING COMMISSION
September 22, 1969
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 P.M., by Chairman
Halus.
Led by Commissioner Curtis.
Present:
Commissioners:
Mr. Curtis, Mrs. Ludwig, Mr. Webster
Mr. Mahoney, Mr. Larna=d, Mr. Halus.
Absent: Commissioner: Mr. Oster.
Others present:
Mr. Harry E. Gill, City Administrator
Mr. James G. Rourke, City Attorney
Mr. James L. Supinger, Planning Director
Jo Ann Turner, Planning Secretary
It was moved by Mr. Larnard, seconded by Mr. Mahoney, that
the minutes of September 8, 1969~ be approved as submitted.
Carried 6-0.
1. UP-69-308 - PBR COMPANY ON BEHALF OF ZORRO INVESTMENT CO.
(Continued from 9/8/69)
To permit:
A free-standing sign for surface traffic
with a height of 20 feet, an area of 63 sq.ft.
per side, total area of 126 sq. ft. and lo-
cated within the required front setback.
A free-standing sign for freeway traffic with
a height of 3'5 feet, an area of 308 sq. ft.
per side, total area of ~16 sq. ft. and lo-
cated within the required setback area.
3. A Mobil "Pegasus" wall sign with an area of
13 sq. ft.
Se
A "Mobil Service" wall sign with an area of
15 sq. ft.
A price panel sign to be located on a pole
sign with an area of 15 sq. ft. per side,
total area of 30 sq. ft. and a minimum height
above grade of 8 feet.
6. Total sign area on the site of 800 sq. ft.
Location: At the northeast corner of the intersection of
Irvine Boulevard (Fourth Street) and the Newport Freeway.
Mr. Supinger presented' the staff report stating that this
hearing was continued.to permit the Architectural Committee
of the Planning Commission to meet with representatives of
Mobil Oil and nearby property owners to flag the site and
make a recommendation to the Planning Commission. The
Committee's recommendation is as follows:
Fr~e~ay Identification Free-Standing Sign
Number - 1
IIeight - 35 ft. ' '
Area/Side - 152 sq. ft.
Total Area - 304 sq. ft.
Location - Adjacent to freeway, 25 ft. setback from
Irvine Boulevard.
Local Identification Free-Standing Sign
Number - 1 :.
.Height - 20 ft.
Area/Side - 32 sq. ft.
Total Area ~ 64 sq. ft.
Location - Mid-point on south boundary.
~egasus Wall Sign
Number - 1
Area - 13 sq. ft. ~
Location - West corner on south side of building·
Price Panel Sign
Number - 1
Height - ?
Area/Side - 15 sq. ft.
Total Area - 30 sq. ft.
Location - To set on the ground.
The Planning Department's recommendation is as follows:
1. Freeway Identification Free-Standing Sign
Number - 1
Height - 21 ft.
Area/Side - 152 sq. ft.
· Total Area - 304 sq. ft.
Location - Adjacent to freeway, 25 ft. setback
north of the northerly right-of-way
line of Irvine Boulevard.
2. Local Identification Free-Standing Sign
Number - ~ '~'
Height - 6 ft.
Area/Side - 32 sq. ft.
Total Area'- 64 sq. ft.
Location - Mid-point on south boundary.
3. Pegasus Wall Si~q
Number -
Location -
1
West corner on south side of building.
4. Pr.ice Panel Sign
Number - 1
Height - 5'6"
Area/Side - 15 sq. ft.
Total Area - 30 sq. ft.
Location: - To set on the ground.
Recommended conditi6n %of approval:
a®
Approval of plans Dy the Development Preview'
Committee.
Chairman IIalus opened the public portion of the hearing at
7:35 P.M.
Those speaking in favor of subje'Ct application were:
Mr. Peter Abundis, 1101 Valley Mall,,E1 Monte, Mobil Oil
Gompany representative.
Mr. Devine, 923 Arlee Place, Anaheim, S~gn'Company
representative.
Mr. George Ar~yros, 17411 Irvine Blvd., partner in
Zor~o Investment Company.
Mr. Don Yoder~. 17411 Irvine Blvd., partner in Zorro
Investment Company.
- Septembor 22, 1969
They agreed with the suggested changes by the Architecturai
Committee and felt that the compromise was agreeable for
all'that were involved. They thanked the participants and
commended them for their cooperation and consideration.
Mr. Robert IIall, 17452 Irvine Boulevard, was in opposition
to the free-standing surface sign for local identification.
(located on Fourth Street.) IIe did not think the sign would
blend in aesthetically with the ov~ral~ concept of Fourth
Stroot and was concerned over the lighting of the sign.
After researching other areas, he felt that the Sa~d Canyon
area is a good example of service station signing. The signs
are minimized, attractive and adequate for identification.
As a suggestion, Mr. Hall felt that if the applicant feels
that it is imperative for the sign to be seen on the Santa
Ana s~de, a modification could be made on the east side to
eliminate the glare of the lighted sign in the Tustin area.
He Was in favor of a planter type sign.
Mr. Mahoney questioned the visibility of a lower s~gn in
relation to the surrounding service stations.,
There being no further comments from the audience, Chairman
Halus declared the public portion of the hearing closed at
7:55 P.M.
Mr. Webster stated that he was concerned with the pole sign
after having a chance to view other stations and signs, with
what he felt is adequate identification - signs that were
minimal, simple and obvious. He stated that he would like
to see the 20 ft. pole sign at a lower level. He suggested
that the Pegasus sign would be as effective for advertising
as the name "Mobil Oil", itself, and would be in agreement
with this change.
Mr. Webster stated that, at this time, his opinion is dif-
ferent than what was stated at the ~ime of the flagging, but
he felt that it is in the best interest'of the community that
modifications be made to eliminate excessive signing and signs
that are lighted; particularly in this area. He stated that
this location is the entrance to the city and every consider-
ation should be made to retain its proper balance aesthetically.
.Mr. Halus reminded Mr. Webster ~hat no firm commitments were
made at the time of the flagging; only recommendations to the
CommLssion.
Mr. Mahpney felt that by omitting the name of the service
station from the sign, there would be no identification on
the building as to the type of service station. He asked
the Commission's feeling of allowing Mobil's name to be
located right above the symbol, as previously requested.
~e stated that economics have to be considered and felt that
adequate identification is necessary.
Mr. Webster stated that'he has no objection, if Mobil Oil
wants to substitute their name in place of the Pegasus symbol.
He felt that the 35 ft. freewa~ sign was sufficient and did
not think it necessary to repeat the name.
It was moved by Mr. Webster, seconded by Mr. Larnard, that
Resolution No. 1103 be adopted, conditionally approvin~
~pplication No. UP-69-308 (PBR Com~an~) to ~ermit the fol-
lowing signs:
~.reewa~ Identification Free-Standin~ Si~n
Number 1
Height 35 ft,
Area/Side 152 sq. ft.
Total Area '304. sq. ft., adj~6ent t6 f~eeway, with
~ s~ba6k, of ~ ft. f~om Ir~ihe Blvd.
2. Local Identification Free-Standi.nQ Sign
Nun~er
lloight
Area/Side
Total Area
Location
1
Not to exceeds. 12 ft.
13 sq. ft.
26 sq. ft., the sign being a Pegasus.Logo.
Planter. area, mid-point on the south
.boundary - the standard holding the sign
to be in conformity with the canopy stand-
ards.
3. Wall Sign -__"Mobil Service"_
Number 1
Area 15 sq. ft.
Location Over .the l~be bays, south side of the
building.
4. Price Panel.Sign
Number
Height
Area/Side
Total Area
1
Not to exceed 5'6"
15 sq. ft.
30 sq. ft.
Free-standing and in a form that would conform with
the architecture of the building.
Condition of approval:
ae
Approval of plans by the Development Preview
Committee.
Reason for approval:
The Commission finds t~at the establishment,
maintenance and operation of the use applied
for will not, under the circumstances of the
particular case'be detrimental to the health,
safety, morals, comfort and.general welfare
of the persons residing or working in the
neighborhood of the' proposed use and it will
not be injurious or detrimental to the prop-
erty and improvements in the neighborhood or
the general welfare of the City.
As additional grounds, th~ minutes and evidence
introduced at the hearing are.included by
reference and made a part of the motion.
The above motion was voted by roll call.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
Curtis, Ludwig, Webster, Larnard
Mahoney, Halus
Oster
CARRIED 4-2
2. V-69-254 - CHARLES Ao MILES ON BEHALF OF NELLIE B. MILES
To permit: a. The rental of a portion of an existing
nonconforming structure for an art shop for which off-street
parking does not exist.
b. To permit the rental of a small, non-
conforming studio apartment as a residence.
Location: At the northeast co~ner of the intersection of First
Street and North "B" Street· ·
Mr. Supinger presented the staff report stating that the
buildings are nonconforming be~use they do not comply with
mended denial for the following reasons:
Septcn~cr 22, 1949
1. The previous occupant of structure "a" (Tustin
You~% Employment) was an office use which was
- more conforming than the proposed use because
less off-street parking is required for office
use than for retail use.
2. There has been more than a one year lapse in
the use of the residence structure.
Chairman Halus opened the public portion of the hearing at
8:15 P.M.
Those in opposition were Mrs. Margaret Byrd, 158 No. "B" and
Mrs. Joyce, 133 No. "B" Street, Tustin. They did not feel
that the studio apartment was suitable or safe for prospective
tenants and felt that the structure was not suitable for any
type of use. They stated that they were not opposing the
proposed art shop use for the building located on 1st Street.
Mr. Charles A. Miles, 722 West Chapman, Orange, applicant,
complimented the staff on the comprehensive report that was
submitted. He stated that he felt the neighbors were making
an undue issue over the situation and agreed that some re-
pairs would have to be done. He did not feel that the pro-
posed use for an art shop would generate a traffic problem,
since Mrs. Cooper, the tenant would only operate the business
on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The hours being 11:00 A.M.
to 4 P.M. He stated that some of the repairs have already
been attended to.
Mr. Robert Ha11,17452 Irvine Blvd., stated that he does have
an interest in the down town area and he feels that if some
of these old vacant buildings were productively used, it
would be better than letting them stand empty. He felt that
some type of use would be better for the communityi until the
Town Center Area Study is completed.
There being no further comments from the audience, Chairman
Halus declared the hearing closed at 8:30 P.M.
Mrs. Ludwi~ asked for a clarification'of the art shop.
Mr. Miles stated that it would be retail sales and there would be
no lessons or students involved. Mrs. Cooper will take orders
for picture framing, but this will be done in Los Angeles.
He stated that the electrical, wiring, called out in the Build-
ing Department's report, would be complied with, although the
wooden structure on the back of the property could not be de-
molished, because it is being utilized by the Plumbing Company
adjacent to the property.
Mr. Mahoney stated that since a thorough inspection has not
been made by the Commissioners and in consideration of all
interested parties involved, he felt that a continuance was
in order.
It was moved by Mr. Mahoney, seconded by Mr. Webster, that
V-69-254'be continued to the next regularly scheduled meeting,
October 13, 1969, to ~l~ow time for a field trip to the prop-
erty and a close inspection.
Mr. Halus stated that Mr. Hall's comments were well taken, but
he was concerned for the welfare, health and safety for the
individuals. He commented that because the stu~{io apartment
is substandard, the general feeling seems to be opposed to this
use and the real consideration is relative to the art 9hop.
Mr. Webster stated ~ha~ a~ this point, h9 has absolutely no
property.
Mrs. LudwiQ asked if the wooden shed in question, would still
be used for the present use, if the variance is denied.
Chairman Halus answered "yes."
6-0. Absent: Mr. Oster
- Septembor 22, 1969
NONE
NONE
NONE
V-68-206 HON DEVELOPMENT -_Request for Time
Limit Extension
~ocation:' Northeast corner of the intersection
of Tustin Village Way and McFadden.
Mr. Su~inger presented the staff report stating that the
current request is for an extension to December 30, 1970
for a Farmhouse sign. The delay has been caused because
of anticipated purchase of additional land along Newport
Freeway which is owned by the State Division of Highways
and which, if purchased, would be integrated into the
proposed development.
Mr. Su~in~er stated that there is no objection by the staff.
It was moved by Mr. Webster, seconded by Mr. Larnardr that
Application No. V-65-206 be approved as requested.
Motion carried unanimously. 'Absent: Oster
2. SIGN FLAGGING
Mr. Supinger stated that'~o sign fl&~gings are scheduled
for Saturday, October 4, 1969.
3. TUSTIN NORTH HOMES - DELAY OF OCCUPANCY
Mr. Martin Cohen, 1212 North Broadway, Santa Ana, homeowner,
stated that he has purchased a home in the Tustin North de-
velopment, and within the past week, he was informed that
these homes are in violation of the zoning ordinance.because
of'a 3 ft. overhang of the roof to the'property line. He
stated that prospective tenants have been told that their
utilities will not be released or turned on until a variance
is approved or until the roof is altered. He stated that
this creates an undue hardship to the people that are wait-
ing to move in, due to their having sold other homes, 'ex-
pecting to be able to move into the new ones. He stated
that Trans-Robles has agreed to write a letter of intent,
stating that if the variance is not agreed upon, that they
will cut down this overhang bY one (1) ft. He stated that
there are other people presently living in the homes with
the same violation, which was not pointed out but was ap-
proved by the inspectors.
Mr. Cohen asked the commission to allow them to move in,
based on a letter of intent that the Corporation gives,
that if this is a problem and the variance is not granted,
that they will cut down 1 f~. of the overhang on each side
of the houses.
Mr. Rourke stated that there was no actipn that the Planning
Commission could take on this matter at this time. He stated
that this would be within the Building OffiCial's prerogative.
He suggested that the Commission could make some request to
the Building Official regarding this matter.
Mr. Gi].l :;Lated that th(~ ]Tui].dintl OF. ficial i;; at present,
chcckll~-~7.; to see if there: ]]ave bo. eh past violations and if
so, it could ]lave ~een done at the time before Trans-Robles
took over. lie stated that although a hardship does exist,
he did not feel that it was his prerogative to authorize
temporary use until it is resolved by the Commission.
Mr. Halus stated that it.had been mentioned that this sit-
uation had been brought to the attention of the tract over
a month ago and wanted to know what the reasons were for
not resolving it at that time.
Mr. Gill stated that he was not in the City at that time
and was not aware of the difficulty. He did not feel 'that
it was anyone's fault in particular but due to being handled
by different builders and corporations, this is the result.
Mr. Skannes, 13542 Marshall Lane, stated that his family is
living in an apartment and they have over-stayed one week at
the present time and it appears that they are going to be
forced to move because they have given their notice to the
manager of the apartments. He commented that another family
is having to drive their children from Riverside. to the local
schools due to not being able to occupy their new residence.
Mr. Sterlin~ Albert, superintendent of the tract, Trans-Robles
representative, stated that the 3 ft. overhang violates the
code by approximately one (1) ft. on one side. He stated
that a variance application would be submitted at the October
13, 1969 meeting, but in the interim, would like someone to
authorize occupancy of the homes.
Mr. Webster asked if there were existing bonds on the tract now,
that are still in force and is there any way of attaching
such a condition, to remedy the situation if a variance is
not approved.
Mr. Rourke stated that the existing bond only relates to
public improvements, and ahother one cgqld not be attached.
Mr. Gill mentioned that one of the problems is the lot lines,
and in one case, Cox Corporation had a house built that split
in the middle of a lot. He stated that some of the houses are
designed with an extended roof and now that there is a possi-
bility of it being modified, the.owners are becoming concerned,
and this is one of the problems that the City and Developer are
trying to resolve.
Mr. Larnard said that this appears to be a Building Code
problem as well as a Zoning Code problem and that we as a
Planning Commission should be careful not to be put in a
positio% as we have been in the past of considering a
variance to regulatory ordinances (U.C.B.), as this is not
the purpose nor authority of the Planning Commission.
Mr. Curtis asked Mr. Rou~ke. i f the developer could enter into
a new bond to permit a solution to these problems and permit
the City to authorize occupancy of the homes. He felt that
an agreement could stipulate that if the variance was not ap-
proved, an agreeable modification would be reached.
Mr. Rourke stated that there was no provision in the Zoning
Ordinance that allows or provides for deviations from the
terms of the Ordinance based upon substitute of agreements.
or bonds. IIe explained that there are instances when a case
come up that involve some essentially mi~or variation where
there is a sufficienl'- hardship involved wllere some admini-
~t~¥~ p~.~on ~ak~ ~ u~o~ thems~lf, to wor~ '~]1~ molter out.
lie felt that this situation is essen~£a.lly beyond the
of the Planning Commission to take action other than to in-
dicate to the Building Official whatever feelings or request
that they might l]ave about it. tie suggested that the Planning
Commission could give snme expression of their feelings to tile
- September 22, 1969
Mr..Gill clarified that, in his opinion, this matter does
not violate the Building Code, but does violate the Zoning
Ordinance (Section 5.12). Distance of lot lines is not
covered in the Building Code.
Mr. Curtis called attention to the Commission, that no legal
action of any kind could be taken at this time.
Mr. Gill stated that the City Staff did not want to make an
administrative decision before conferring with the Planning
Commission.
Mr. Halus commented that this was very much appreciated.
It was moved by Mr. Webster, seconded by Mr. Mahoney, that
a Minute Order be written to the Building Official indicating
that it is the desire of the Planning Commission that he recon-
sider this problem and do those things that are within his
purview to alleviate the hardship that is obvious to the buyers,
however, this request in no way acts as any official action or
comment on any variance application or request to come before
the Commission.
Carried 6-0.
Mrs. Ludwig asked Mr. Albert when his most recent survey
completed.
Mr. Albert stated that they have had a partial survey within
the last week.
4. URBAN ACTION FORUM - LONG BEACH
Mr. Halus read a letter from the Chamber of Commerce of the
United States extending an invitation to the Urban Action
Forum'in Long Beach, October 1, 1969. Mr. Halus encouraged
the interested parties to attend.
5. APPEAL OF THE METZ COMPANY ON BEHALF OF TANDY CORP.
(V-69-251) - at the last Council meeting.(Sept 15, 1969)
Mr. Halus informed the Commission that the applicant agreed
to sidewalk installation, non-revolving sign and the sign
height was held at 21 ft. 6 in. He stated that he felt that
the City Council's position was to stay within the new Sign
Ordinance requirements.
6. PZ-69-119 - ROBERT HALL & W. TAYLOR - CITY COUNCIL ACTION
Mr. Halus stated that Mr. Hall, applicant, presented to the
Council, a plan for a 2800 sq. ft. single story, less dens~
apartment complex rather than the R-3 (1500) plan. The Council
referred the application back to the Planning Commission, to
allow Mr. Hall time to prepare a more concise plan of the re-
quest. Mr. Halus stated that he felt that was the appropriate
action taken at this time, because the presentation to the Council
was significantly different from that present to the Commission.
It was moved by Mr. Curtis, seconed by Mr. Larnard, that
the meeting be adjourned. Carried unanimously.
There being no further business before the Commission, Chairman
Halus declared the meeting adjourned at 9:10 P.M.
dlIAI~RM/~I OF ~llll,'. PLANN~ING~ CO~IMI-(JSION
~ARY OF TIlE PLANNING COMMISSION