HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Minutes 06-12-67CALL TO
ORD~.K
II.
ROLL
CALL
III.
APPROVAL
OF
MINUTES
IV.
PUBLIC
HF2%RING$
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING
TUSTIN PLANNING COMMISSION
June 12, 1967
The meeting was called to order at 7:38 P.M., by Chairman
Marsters.
Present: Commissioners: Brand, Bacon, Halus, Marsters, Ludwig,
Sharp, Oster
Absent: None
Others Present:
James G. Rourke, City Attorney
James L. Supinger, Planning Director
Jo Ann Turner, Planning Secretary
AMENDMENT to tge May ~2~ 1967 Planning Commission Minutes.
Mr. Oster requested that the statement made by Mr. Federwipch
during the receps~ on Pa~e 4t line..26, t~at he was in favor of
Application No. UP-67-232 be stricken from the record. Mr. Oster
felt that any comments made during the recess at the hearings
should not be included in the minutes.
' ~t was moved bv Mr. ~ster~ seconded by. Mr. Sharp that the Minutes
of May.~2~ 1967 be approved as amended. Motion carried 7-0.
V-67-187 Melvin McReynolds - UP-67-232 Service Station and
Shopping Center (continued from May 22nd Planning Commission
Meeting)
To permit a wall with a maximum height of four (4) feet in the
required setback area along the southwesterly side of Bryan
Street between Main and Newport and a reduction of the required
number of off-street parking spaces for a proposed shopping
center bounded by Newport, Bryan and Main Streets.
Mr.~ SupinKer presented the s:aff report, giving a detailed report
on parking requirements for the area. The Planning Department opposes
the establishment of another service station and the reduction of re-
quired parking spaces, but supports the proposal to locate a four (4)
ft., wall in the setback area of Bryan Avenue.
Mr. Oster asked if it had been determined what the other cities of
Orange County are doing with the "mall" concept relative to the
gross building area for required parking spaces.
Mr. Supinser stated that he had not contacted any of the other de-
partments as to specific requirements but commented that to his
knowledge, the usual practice is to base it on the gross floor area,
however, Costa Mesa may have used some other standard, but he did not
know.
Chairman Marsters opened the p~blic portion of the hearing on V-67-187
at 7:40 P.M. stating that th~ortion of the
~ublic
hearing
UP-67-232
on
was closed.
Mr. Jones, architect, stated that he did check with Cost Mesa in
regards to the South Coast Plaza and that they do not require parking
for the mall. He stated that his plan has sufficient parking with
the exception of the mall.
Chairman Marsters declared the public portion of the hearing closed
at 7:50 P.M.
It was moved ~y Mr. ~ster,.seconded by Mr._Sharp that at this time
the hearinE on V-67-187 be c~ ttinued and considered as a part of and
in conjunction with UP-67-232 .
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: Oster, Sharp, Ludwig,
Mmrsters, Halus, Bacon, Brand. Motion carried 7-0.
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PC Minutes - June 12, 1967
la. UP-67-232 - Melvin ~RHynol~%,. Service Station and Shoppin~ Ceqter.
(This is a closed hearing continued from the May 22nd meeting)
To permit the construction of one (1) service station and
exclusive shopping center.
~. Supinger stated that a letter from the applicant regarding this
matter had been submitted to the Commission just prior to the meeting.
}lr. Halus felt that although a letter from the applicant had been
given to them, that they had not had an opportunity to study it, but
did notice some disturbing factors that were not consistent with the
intent of som~ of the conclusions that had been reached at the last
meeting. He felt that a little more time should be allowed to con-
sider some of the problems.
Chairman Marsters felt that the Planning Department should analyze
the letter and give their opinion on the matter.
Mr. Halus was concerned over the discrepancies that appeared on the
revised plot plan and the detailed plot plan of the service station
and noticed that there is now a sign that is coming into the plan for
the service station for the first time. He felt that there may be
several inconsistencies in areas that need to be more clearly defined.
Mr. Halus asked the staff to prepare an analysis of the letter and of
the various stipulations of the plot plans and criteria that are being
considered.
It was moved by Mr. Halus,..seconded by Mr. Brand that Application
UP-67-232 be postponed to the next re~ular_meetinK pendinK a st~ff
~eport.
The Commission felt that they would like some discussion on the matter
before continuing the hearing to the next meeting. Mr. Oster felt that
if they could have a few questions answered at this meeting, it might
eliminate a lot of discussion at a later meeting.
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: None. Noes: Oster,
Ludwig, Sharp, Marsters, Halus, Bacon, Brand. }~otion denied 7-0.
Questions arose from the Commission regarding identification, p~rking
requirements, how many pole signs were allowed, could the service
station be reversed and why were there discrepencies at this ti~e in
the plans.
Mr. Schlese~, attorney, stated that the service station would require
an additional pole sign. Mr. Jones, architect, commented that they
could m~d would not reverse the service station and said it was unfair
that they had such a short time to review the staff report before the
scheduled meetings and this was causing some of the discrepencies in
the plans.
Mr. SupinEer stated that he had made it very clear to the applicant
and others involved that a meeting should be called to clear up all
the questions and problems and at this time had not been contacted by
the various personnel involved. He explained that the staff reports
were only mailed out on the Friday before the meeting because the staff
did not receive all their information in time to get the reports out any
earlier. He stated that with the lack of cooperation on this particular
application, the staff had too much work on other applications to keep
dragging this out.
Mr. Oster very strongly expressed dissatisfaction on the part of the
applicant and othars involved, by not being more precise and consistent
in exactly whet their proposal called for and strongly suggested that
they meet with the Planning Staff and Chairman Marsters to solve the
problems before returning to have their application reheard. He felt
that an injustice has been done to the staff and wanted to stress the
amount of time wasted by such a piece-meal type of plan.
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'PC Minutes - June 12, 1967 ".' .... ""<~
Mr. Schlegel stated that he was very willing to comply with this request
and stated that he would do whatever was necessary to finalize any
action with the Staff and Con=nission.
}ir. Birnev B. Truitt, 1202 Letty Lane, Tustin Realtor, spoke in ~ehalf.
of Col. and Mrs. Robinson and Mr. Griggs, residents in the immediate
area, stated that their concern was due to a steam laundry at the Bryan
}lain intersection and liquor and beer being served in the proposed
restaurant. He stated that personally he was in favor of a C-1 shopping
center over some other form of development such as apartment develop-
ments and was not against the application. He did not feel that the
people he was representing were against it, but were concerned about
some of the features mentioned above. Due to a steam laundry or the
restaurant being located too close to the residential area, it was not
desirable to the residents in their opinion.
It was moved by Mr. Halus,.sec.onded by Mr. Brand that Application No.
UP-67-232 and UV-67-187 be continued to the next regularly scheduled
meeting, following a meeting with the. applicant and Planning Staff for
review and analysis of the information submitted.
Mr. Halus stated that he would rely on the staff to post the next
regularly scheduled meeting when they have the information that they
feel is appropriate to present to the Cc~m~ission.
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: Oster, Ludwig, Sharp,
Marsters, Halus, Bacon, Brand. Motion carried 7-0.
2. V-67-184 - Federal Sign and Signal Corporation - Bank of America
To permit the modification of an existing non-conforming sign
on the building location in Larwin Square.
Mr. Su~inger presented a brief staff report stating that it seems
that the Bank of America has a self-created hardship through the
creation of standard signs and did not feel that the justification
is adequate for the approval of the requested variance, therefore,
recommending denial.
After a brief discussion on requirements of sign sizes, Chairman
Marsters opened the public portion of the hearing at 8:30
There being no comments from the audience the hearing was immediately
declared closed.
After a brief discussion among the Commissioners, they did not feel
that a hardship had been shown in which to grant the approval of the
application.
It was moved by ~r. Oster~ s~conded by Mr. He,us that Application
No. V-67-184 be denied.
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: Oster, Ludwig, Sharp,
Ymrsters, Halus, Bacon, Brand. Noes: None. Motion carried 7-0.
3. V-67-186 - Kal-South Development Corporation
(a) Approval of specific plans for the construction of a 119 unit
apartment project in the PD (Planned Development) zone.
(b) To permit a variance to allow:
Accessory structures (carports) which are not connected
to a main building and which do not meet the sideyard
setback requirements for a main building.
2. Zero foot sideyard setback for accessory structures along
the northerly and southerly property lines.
A waiver of the requirements for 90 sq. ft. of lockable
storage area in the 16 carport spaces on the northerly
side of the private alley, at the south side of the
development.
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· PC Minutes - June 12, 1967
}ir. Supingcr presented the staff report stating that sufficient detail
is not provided for a decision on thc following items:
1. f~rchitectural treatr, ent of the carports (should be compatible
w~th main buildings).
2. Adequacy of the fence surrounding the property.
3. The type of recreational facilities and their location.
4. Landscaping.
However, it was felt that these items could be adequately handled
by the Architectural Committee.
The Planning Staff recommended that V-67-186 be granted, subject to
Architectural Review including, but not limited to the above mentioned
items.
Chairman }~arsters opened the public portion of the hearing at 8:40 P.M.
Mrs. MarR McDonald, homeowner, was concerned about the wall surrounding
the development in respect to the design and appearance of the wall.
Mr. Ervin Winesuff representing Kal-South Development, stated that a
specific answer that they would agree with on the staff recommendation
was that they do propose to meet the four points that Mr. Supinger
brought out when they meet with him and the Architectural Committee.
He stated that the treatment of the wall would be in accordance to the
requirements of the Code and the Building Department. He said that
they would meet with the recommendations of the Fire Chief for fire
exits between their project and Tustin Village II.
There being no further comments from the audience, Chairman Marsters
declared the public portion of the hearing closed at 8:4~ P.M.
It wes movcd by Mr. Brand, seconded by Mr. Bacon, that Resolution No.
891 for A~p~lication V-67-186, Kal-South Development Corp.~ be approved
to include the recommendations of the Fire Department and the Plannin~
Staff.
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: Oster, Ludwig, Sharp,
Halus, Bacon, Brand, Marsters. Noes: None. Motion carried 7-0.
Chairman Marsters called a five minute recess at 8:50 P.M., and re-
convened at 8:55 P.M.
4. UP-67-233 - Robert E. Wilde
To permit service station signs with a total area of 300 sq. ft.,
on a proposed service station to be located at the northwest
corner of Seventeenth and Carrol Way. Specific requests are for:
(a) A pole sign with the maximum height of 35 ft., containing
a total of 282 sq. ft. of area.
(b) A wooden wall sign mounted between canopy support posts
at the outer pump '~sland containing 14.5 sq. ft. of area.
A chevron hallmakk sign mounted on the roof of the building
containing an area of 3.5 sq. ft. (Sign Ordinance would per-
mit a maximum of 150 sq. ft., total area on the site and a
maximum height for pole sign of 24 ft.)
Mr..Supin~er presented the staff report stating that because the site
is located where a sign will not give freeway exposure and because of
the orientation of the si~n (parallel to the freeway), the staff does
not see a justification for increased height and area under the subject
provision of the Sisn Ordinance, and recommended denial of UP-67-233.
After a few technical questions pertaining to the normal size of the
~hevron signs amd why this wao necessary to increase the height and
go beyond the Sign Ordinance requirements, Chairman Marsters opened
the public portion of the hearing at 9:08 P.M~
.PC Minutes - June 12, 1967
}ir. Robert Wilde - Developer of the property and owner, explained the
justification of the request. He felt that this is not going to be a
short term operation and they have complied with the architectural
standards with a Spanish motif. Basically the large sign seemed to be
the problem and remarked that the whole image of the Standard Stations
is based on the red, white and blue signs and station. He felt that
the small 3% ft., hallmark sign is the only touch of color that is on
the building. He mentioned t.~at the proposed sign is the standard size
sign on all the Standard Servica Stations all over the United States.
He felt that the station would bring business from the freeway and
needed this type of sign so it could be visibly seen.
Mr. Wilde presented pictures of the signs to the Commission for their
review. He stated that he made the application on the basis of Section
35.00 of the Sign Ordinance, which states that signs larger or in excess
of the standards may be permitted under this section for applicants that
are within 200 feet of the freeway.
There being no other comments or further discussion from the audience,
Chairman Marsters declared the public portion of the hearing closed at
9:17 P.M.
Questions arose from the Commission as to the distance from the station
to the freeway, the landscaping requirements and if they met with the
City policy, the height of the station and the location of the signs.
The Commission expressed their feelings on maintaining the Sign Ordinance
requirements and that they should hold to the Sign Ordinance in square
footage and height requirements in this regard.
Mr. Wilde opined that they could probably reduce the sign in height,
but it would be difficult to reduce the size of the sign~
Mr. Sharp voiced his opinion stating that the size of the propose sign
would be disproportionatly large if it were 24 feet off the ground. He
felt that whether or not a sign of that height and size would conflict
with the elevations of the bt~lding would depend a lot on your point of
view, whether you were on the off-ramp or the surface street and did
not see that this point was a major consideration.
M~. Sup~D~er explained that his recommendation was predicated oh what
he interpreted as the intent of the Sign Ordinance, which was the fact
that if the business was in proximity of the freeway and if by getting
additional height and additional area, that if some additional business
could be derived from that, then it would be justified. He explained
that this was his own interpretation of the Sign Ordinance in this case.
Mr. Bacon opined that he felt there should be something in the Sign
Ordinance that would take care of a standard sign rather than having
all these hearings, feeling that if one of the Standard Service Station's
signs were cut down, it would entail additional expense and hardship.
He felt that the Sign Ordinance could be revised to handle signs that
are used regularly.
It was moved by Mr. O~ter? seconded by..Mr. Bacon, that Resolution No.
892 for Application UP-67-23~:be granted.
Mr. Ha lus stated that the areas of the ordinance that are subject to
interpretation act as a guide and policy statement. For all practical
purposes, he felt that the freeway was really not a consideration for
the service station. He did not feel that the 200 feet from the off-
ramp to the freeway should be blindly accepted without considering the
total location and stated that he is opposed to the application.
Chairman Marsters and Mr. Sharp concurred with Mr. Halus.
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: Oster, Bacon.
Noes: Ludwig, Sharp, Marsters, Halus, Brand. Motion denied 5-2.
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PC l.[inutes -June 12, 1967
5. V-67-185 - General Maintenance - Southland Corporation (SighS)
To Permit:
(a) Sign area exceeding that permitted by the Sign Ordinance
for a wall sign and one pole sign totalling 311 sq. ft.
(b) The construction of a free-standing sign in the required
building setback area.
}~r. Supiq~er presented the staff report stating that there are no
objections to the location of the pole sign in the setback area
provided that the advertising surfaces of the sign are a minimum
of 10 feet above grade.
>Ir. Su~inger recommended that the request for sign area in excess of
that permitted by the Ordinance be denied and that a pole sign, com-
plying with the overall area requirements, be permitted in nhe setback
area if the advertising surfaces are a minimum of 10 feet above grade.
Chairman Marsters opened the public portion of the hearing at 9:50 P.M.
Mr. Jim ~u~yis, representing General Maintenance Company, stated that
they could comply with the Planning Staff's recommendations and ex-
plained that they would like to substitute a different size sign for
the originally proposed one.
Mr. Supinger explained that based on the applicant's suggestion, he felt
that a motion in agreement with the staff's suggestion would be in order,
then the sign now proposed by the applicant would comply with these re-
quirements. He stated that all that would be necessary at this point
would be to approve the sign in the setback area.
There being no further comments or discussion, Chairman Marsters declared
the public portion of the hearing closed at 9:53 P.M.
It was moved by Mr._ Halus, seconded by Mr. Sharp that Resolution No.
893 for. Application V-67-185. that the request for sign area in excess
of that permitted by the Ordinance be denied and a pol~ sign comolying
~.~ith the overall area requirem~nts,..be, permitted in the setback area
as lonR as the advertising surfaces are a minimum of 10 ft. above grade.
The above motion was voted by roll call. Ayes: Oster, Sharp, Ludwig,
}~rsters, Halus, Bacon, Brand. Noes: None. Motion carried 7-0.
6. ,~:ENDMENT TO ZONING ORDINANCE NO. 157
Relative to location of Accessory Structures.
Mr. SuRinger presented a copy of the proposed amendment to the ordinance
uo the Commission that had been requested by the Commission pointing out
the key aspects. He recommended that the proposed ordinance be approved
and recommended to the City Council for adoption.
A letter was also received, signed by various people in the area,
suggesting that a one (1) foot setback would be more appropriate
than the three (3) feet setback as proposed in the ordinance.
Chairman Marsters opened the public portion of the hearing at 9:57 P.M.
Mr. Robert Windolph, 336 East First Street, Tustin, spoke in behalf of the
amendment remaining at a one foot setback. He felt that by amending it
to a three (3) ft., setback, it was creating more unusable space on the
property.
There being no further discussion, Chairman Marsters declared the public
portion of thc hearing closed at 10:00 ~.}i.
Mr. Supin5er explained that the reason fire walls had not been included
in the ordinance, was uhat the Building Code would adequately cover this.
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PC Minutes - June 12, 1967
OLD
BUSINESS
;I.
~EW
BUSINESS
VII.
CORRES -
PONDENCE
Mr. Halus opined that one of the concerns of the staff and Planning
Commission is the inability to maintain a wall if you have a zero
foot setback.
Mr. Charles Greenwood - 336 East First Street, Tustin, gave an example
of this type of setback that he had seen in another City and stated that
there was no need for any maintenance area. He felt that if you do build
right next to the property line with the fire wall he did not see any
objection to it. He opined that a block wall should be required if you
build right against the property line and have a zero foot setback.
During the discussion back and forth regarding the proposed amendment,
~lr. Sharp opined that this seemed to be a case where it would take a
little while before they could come to an agreement and felt that a
workshop or additional studies could be made before agreed upon and
suggested that this be done if there was no demand rush on the amend-
ment being approved.
}~r. Halus did not feel that Paragraph "d" in the amendment served any
useful purpose.
It was moved by Mr. Ha lus~ seconded by Mr. Brand that Section ~.~5,
Accessory Structures be recommended to City Council to read as follows:
Paragraph "a" - no change
Paragraph "b" - no change
Paragraph "c" - no change
Paragraph "d" - eliminated in its entirety
Paragraph "e" - no change, but to be redesignated as
Paragraph "d"
Chairman Marsters concurred with Mr. Sharp's suggestion and felt ~hat
they could possibly meet with the developers and get more insight of
their feelings on the matter. Mr. Oster agreed with Mr. Sharp and
Chairman }larsters also and felt that Paragraph "d" at this point was
not going to serve any purpose.
The above motion was voted by roll call. Ayes: Halus, Bacon. Noes:
Oster, Sharp, Ludwig, Brand, Marsters. Motion denied 5-2.
It was moved by Mr. Oster, seconded bv Mr. Sharp that the public hearin8
on the ~roDosed amendment to the Zonin~ Ordinance relative to Accessory
Structures be continued until the July. 10th Planning Commission Meeting,
and that the Planning Staff be directed to arrange a workshop for dis-
cussions with the interested developers, along with obtaining a copy of
the Orange County"s ordinance for review.
The above motion was voted by roll call: Ayes: Oster, Sharp, Ludwig,
Ymrsters, Halus, Bacon, Brand. Noes: None. Motion carried 7-0.
Mr. Supinser suggested that a date be set for the workshop meeting.
The date was set for June 21st at 7:30 P.M. in the Planning Department
of the City of Tustin, City Hall.
NONE
NONE
1. County Case UV-5900 - First Assembly of God of Tustin
To permit the establishment of a church in the IO0-CI-iO,O00
Local Business District.
Mr. Supinger stated that it is felt that the present plans are an
Ymprovement and would suggest that the County be informed that we
have no objections [o this development.
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PC Minutes - June 12, 1967
It was moved by ,X:r. Bacon~ se.condad.bv Mr. Brand, that the Planning
Director notify the County of Orange Planning Commission, that. tlAere'
are no objections to granting approval of UV-5900.
VIII.
OTHER
BUSIneSS
IX.
ADJOURN-
MENT
2. County Cases UV-5902~ UV-5903LL~-5904~ Influential Square,
Directional Signs
To permit the continued use of tempo=ary directional signs for a
period of one year to direct traffic to the sale of homes in Tract
5415 in the R4 Suburban Residential District.
}~. ~upinger presented a short staff report on these signs and their
location and recommended that the Orange County Planning Commission
suggest a limitation of one year or until the 18 units are sold and
subject to this condition, the Tustin Planning has no objections.
The Commission expressed hope that the County of Orange would seek
to secure conformity in the areas in close proximity to Tustin, with
our Sign Ordinance regulations.
It was moved bv Mr. Brand,.seconded by Mr. Oster, that the Plansing
Director be requested to direct a letter to the County to the extent
that we do have objections to signs of this size bein~ continued and
that we recommend a six (6) month extension and no further extension
beyond the six (6) months from the date of the last expiration.
The above motion was voted by roll call. Ayes: Oster, Sharp, Ludwig,
Marsters, Brand. Noes: Halus, Bacon. Motion carried 5-2.
NONE
It was moved by b~r. Bacon~ seconded by Mr. Sharp~ qhat the meeting
be adjourned. Motion carried unanimously.
There being no other business before the Planning Commission, the
meeting was adjourned at 10:31 P.M.
SEC,~TARY OF THE P~%NNING CO~ISSION
CthlIP~MAN CLOTHE PLANNING COMMISSI[ON
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