HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Minutes 02-13-67minutes of a regular meeting
tustin planning commission
february 13, 1967
CALL TO
ORDER
II.
ROLL
CALL
III.
.\PPROV~L
OF
h~INUTES
IV.
f'UBLIC
HEARINGS
Ti~e meeting was called to order at 7:38 P.M., by
Chairman }la~ stets.
Present: Commissioners: Bacon, Halt,s, }~arsters, Hafner,
Sharp, Oster.
Absent: Cc~mnts s loners: Drand
Others Present:
James Rourke, City Attorney
l~rry E. Gill, City Administrator
James L. Supinger, Planning Director
Jo Ann Tumor, Planning Secretary
It was moved by Mr. Sharp, sec_o3ded by Mr. Hefn~.~__.tb~.5~%
minutes of the Janm~ry 23, 1967 meeting be approv~_d__as mailed.
}lotion carried.
1. V-67-178 - BETKER CONSTRUCTION CORP.
To permit on the front one-half of the lot, an accessory
structure (carport) which is not connected to a ~in
building and which does not meet the side y.lr~ set~mk
requirements for amain building in the R-3 (Multiple
Family Residential District:) and a zero foot side yard
setback for carport along the south boundary line of
subject property.
Mr. Supinger presented the staff report snd reco~nend,tions of
the oti%er departments and commented that if the comu~ssion
feels tha~ adequate justification exists to grant a
the Planning Department would not oppose said approval.
Chairman }~rsters opened the hearing to the public at 7:45
P.~i.
}ir. Rup_s.6J~ 3at',~.r., President of Betker Construction Corp.,
co~,~,,ended tlc doT, r~mants o£ the City for their well recom-
mended cases as to why this variance should be granted. He
stated that there was not much more to add to the
unless anyone else had any questions.
Mr. Oster asked Mr. Barker if this property was directly ad-
jacent to the }lei Ling apartments and Mr. Betker answered Yes.
}ir. Hefner asked if this had been discussed with the Fire
Department and }Ir. Barker said it had.
}ir. Barker went ahead to say that they had no jurisdiction
over the property to the south, but they did have some Juris-
diction as to what to do with the driveway to the Mai Ling
apartmmnts and were willing to go ahead with the recommend-
ation made by the Fire Department.
.Mr. Sam Hudsins, 0%mer of the property, opposed the request
and wanted to know what the reason for this was based on.
}ir. Betker- I feel that to pull the carports off and attach
them to the main building is no problem, but the basic reason
ts such a small area that we feel it is of no use. It is
simply wasted. I think the Co,~,ission will recognize this.
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Planning Commission Minutes
February 13, 1967
Mr. Hudsi.ns asked how this compared with it now.
Mr. SupinF~er stated that he did not have the exact figures,
but it has been checked and is definitely within the specified
requirements. He explained Chat they have an approved plan
right now for the same number of units, but it is somewhat
modified.
}:r. Supinger sunmnad it up by saying that as far as the
Planning Staff is concerned, they are within the bou~is
of the ordinance.
}tr. Hudgin~ asked h~¢ the dens icy compared with Tustin.
Mr.. SupinKer = The proposal has a density of 30 to 31 units
per acre. It is a little bit lower than Tustin Arms and is
comparable to them.
Mr. Douglas, representing the applicant, stated that anything
that he would have to say would only be repetitious after all
the other reports, but did add that if this sams five (5) ft.
setback was enforced it would clear a ten (10) ft. wide all~y
which would be essentially a "no man's land". He felt that
open parking in front of the property was not a good idea
because it is unsightly. When people park in front of the
apartments, it may create difficulty in other tenants
reaching their garage.
This proposal would give us five (5) ft. of more space for
the driveway that would allow for maintenance and fire
trucks.
Mr. Greenwood, co-owner of the property, said regarding the
legal terminology, he realized that officially to grant a
variance you have to have a legal reason, and one of the
reasons for granting a variance would be "strict application
of the zoning ordinance would deprive subject property of
privileges enjoyed by other properties in the vicinity and
under identical zone classsfication." }~ stated that this
was the primary legal reason that this variance is justified.
When this application came in, a different interpretation
stated that we could not do that and that is why we are
applying for this variance tonight.
There being no further objections or c~,m,ents Chairman
}~rsters declared the hearing closed at 8:00 P.M.
Mr. Sharp said that they had mentioned the problems of the
five (5) ft. setback but wanted to know what they intended
to do with the one (1) ft. setback.
Mr. Backer - W~en we build a building we have private patios
on the first floor and we plan on using that one (1) ft. for
that purpose. We will extend the fence to the dead wall.
Mr. Hales asked Mr. Hudgins if he had any objections to Chis
application. Mr. Hudgins said he still felt that he would
object because of the other properties.
Mr. Oster asked how many units there was to this property and
was answered eighty-six (86).
Mr. Betker- I know as a builder that this has always been a
problem when you have this one (1) ft. You put the carport
one (1) foot away and that would mean we would have a two
(2) foot area ~len the same thing is do~e on the adjacent
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Planning Co~,isslon Minutes
February 13, 1967
proper."y. We have a drainage area that we can not get
away from. We want to minimize the maintenance problem.
It was moved by }ir... Oster~ .~econded by Mr. Sharp that
Resolution No. 874~. V-67-178 be llranted for the followin~
reasons:
That tile adjustment hereby authorized will not constitut2
a grant of special privilege inconsistent with the limitation~
upon other properties in the vicinity and district in vhich
the subject property is situated.
e
That because of special circumstances applicable to the
subject property, including size, shape, topography,
location or surroundings, the strict application of the
Zoning Ordinance will deprive subject property of privi-
leges enjoyed by other properties in'the vicinity and
m-der identical zone classification.
That as a condition of the granting of this variance,
the Tustin Fire Department approve the plans prior to
con~truction.
The above mo~ion was voted by Roll Call: Ayes: Oster, Sharp,
Fafnir, Mars~ers, Halus, Bacon. Noes: None. Absent: Brand.
}lotion carried 6°0.
}ir. l~alus requested a report for the Planning Commissioners
on Section 5.15 as it pertains to these situations.
I.:r. Hq.~.i~s said that he was afraid that the people next to
these apar::.%cnts would do the same thing and it reminded him
of what the aplirtments look like in Newport Beach.
2. LW-67-173 - S:~ZLING BROILER
To permit a second free-standing pole sign in a co,mmrcial
co:,~plex. Location of said sign is to be on the north sid.~
of Sevente:ath Street at the intersection of Yorba Street~
and ia the location of existing building ~17391 Seventeenth
Street.
Mr. Supinger presented the staff report stating that the basic
conditions have not changed and the applicants are not able to
show that there is a hardship. Recommendation was for denial
of UV-67-179.
Chairman Marsters opened the hearing to the public at 8:12 P.M.
}ir. Ed. Agnew, Federal Sign and Signal Corp.- I have talked
with Mr. Supinger, the Planning Director and have great respect
for him but we do not agree with his opinion.
~e Union Oil Company, directly across the street from us have
three (3) pole signs and next to that is the Cai-Va-Dairy with
two (2) pole signs. I have nine (9) photographs here, one ia
of the Union Oil Co. and Cai-Va-Dairy with others that I would
like for you gentlemen to see.
Our company erected a sign that your honorable body granted
~o Red ];ill Realty. This particular application is not for
tile front property, bn: , , ie(~t back. The restaurant is
actually a separate bui. ld.;~g and is enclosed with stone walls.
In re~ards to the background of this, I came in late, but invest-
igated and at this time we ara asking for a sign that complies
with the Ordinance. The only thing wrong is that it does not
allow for two (2) signs. I think we are entitled to the same
privileges as the people across the street.
Planning C¢.,.;.ission Minutes
February 13, 1967
}M. }~rsters, after reviewing the photographs that Mr. Agnew
presented, stated that he noticed six (6) of them boing in
Santa Ans. Mr. Agnew said that there were numerous signs in
this vicinity also.
There being no further discussion or co,,~ents the hearing was
declared closed at 8:20 P.M.
}ir. ~alus pointed out to }ir. Agnew that this is the reason
the staff has worked so long and hard on the Sign Ordinance
and he fully agrees with the staff report. Ne stated that
he could see no new reasons for granting this particular
variance and felt ti:at the Planning Commission has made it
quite clear that they are serious about the signs. Ne also
felt that it would not fit into a "hardship" case, and was
a little annoyed about the constant repetition on variances.
Mr. Hefner asked }ir. Supinger if it had been discussed with
the applicant as to what he is allowed in the building signs
and }ir. Supinger assured him that it had.
Mr. Supinger went on to say that it had been discussed with
more than one sign company and seems to be something that
they would rather not consider.
}ir. Hefner said he agreed with Mr. l~lus and did not feel that
the variance should be granted.
}ir. Slmr~ asked }ir. Supinger to clarify his statement that
the applicant is not being deprived of any privileges.
Er. Supinger's su~anary of his rec~,m,endation was this: My
feeling is that non-conforming signs are not a reason for
granting a variance, or creating a hardship. The other signs
are legal because they were granted under the old Sign Ordinance
at the time so the~ have a right to stay. They are not denied
privileges of the others in the area because of others in the
Shopping Center. This is my basic reason.
It was moved by }ir. Hefner~ seconded by }ir. Halus that Appli-
cation No. 15;-67-179 be denied for the foll~{in~.reasons:
1. The subject property is not deprived of privileges
enjoyed by other properties in the vicinity;
The granting of the subject application would constitute
a grant of special privileges inconsistent with the
limitations upon other properties in the vicinity.
The above motion was voted by Roll Call: Ayes: Oster, Sharp,
Hefner, }Mrscers, Halus, Bacon. Noes: None. Absent: Brand.
Mr. Supinger informed the applicants that they can appeal
their case to City Council within five (5) calendar days of
the Planning Co~ulssion hearing.
3. Ai.~ND}iENT TO ZONING ORDINANCE NO. 157
To permit a caretaker's apartment incidental to a small
animal hospital.
}ir. Supinger presented the staff report and reminded the Com-
mission that after the January 9th meeting, the staff was
directed to prepare an ordinance for public hearing. ~ felt
after the public hearing this evening it would be appropriate
to recommend the proposed ordinance to the City Council for
adoption.
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Planning Commission Minutes
Februnry 13, 1967
}iF~ Supinger said that the purpose of this ordinance was to
have someone on hand at the hospital to give medication to
the anin~ls when the doctor is not there.
14r. Supinser then read the comments frdm.the Orange. County
Planning Departmmnt stating that their zoning code does not
permit any type of residential use other than hotels and
motels in any of the co.~mrmrcial districts. There are com-
mercial establishments with living quarters in existence
throughout the County. However, they were in existence or
had building permits taken out prior to February 11, 1964
when The County Zoning Code was amended to prohibit residential
uses with commercial uses.
::r. Oster asked Mr. Supinger after reading the County's letter,
if this meant they were for it or against it.
}~r. Supinger replied that the County was just expressing
their opinion in generality. He stated that Tustin also
prohibited other residences in the commercial district and
this would essentially be limited to caretaker's apartments.
Chairman }iarsters opened the hearing to the public at 8:30 P.M.
There being no discussion from the audience the hearing was
declared closed at 8:31 P.M.
}:r. Halus felt that since this had been previously discussed
at the January 9th meeting that this was just a formal way of
amending the particular ordinance.
It was moved by I.;r. Halus~ seconded by Mr. Oster that Resolution
No. 875 for the Amendment to ZoninK Ordinance No. 157 be recom-
mended to the City Council for adopgion.
}ir. He fner expressed his feeling on the matter that we are
putting the Zoning Ordinance in effect for the one hospital
(Dr. Seretti) that is located on First Street. He felt that
there should be so~mthing to review before putting this on a
permanent basis. Hopefully this would limit it to just care-
taker's purposes,
~:r. Su~inser agreed with }~r. Hefner and said he had a good
point but would like to clarify this by saying, "an animal
hospital already requires a Use Permit and must be reviewed
by the Planning Commission".
Mr. Sharp expressed concern as to ~]ether this might establish
a precedent and perhaps others would come in saying that a
pharmacist might claim that if someone came in at 2:00 A.M.
asking for a proscription to be filled, stating that it was
an emergency if there wouldn't be a slight problem. He felt
that the applicant might be establishing a precedent.
2';r. SupinKer said he personally did not feel that it would,
but the Commission would have to make this decision. If
they are permitted in other districts, in order to do this
they would have to come before the Planning Co,,m, ission, but
he did not feel that it would present a dangerou~ precedent.
Mr. Sharp wanted to know if the Commission had granted a Use
Permit just recently to allow this in Tustim.
.~:r... Supin.ger said not to his knowledge, although Dr. Seretti
did come before the C~-,,mission because he wanted to construct
such an apartment. Mr. Sharp wanted to know the mm~ber of
veterinary hospitals we had now in Tustin and Mr. Supinger
said Three (3).
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Planning Commission Minutes
February 13, 1967
}:r. ilefner co~,.-mented on I.;r. Supinger's statement and asked
if it required a Use Permit for such an adventure.
1.2r. Supingar answered by saying under permitted uses, a Use
Permit is required for all that canes in this gro~,p. If it
was not es-~ablished at the same time, it would require a new
Use Permit. ','n other words, a veterinary ,~ospital without
the apartment wou'id require a Use 'Fermit, then later if an
apartment was permitted it too would require a Use Permit.
The above motio;] was voted ky Roll Call: Ayes: Oster, Sharp,
Hafner, Halus, Bacon, Marsters. Noes: None. Absent: Brand.
}:o~ion carried 6--0.
Chairman }~rsters called a five minute recess.
4. PZ-67-103 - APPLIC\TION OF Tile IRVINE COMPANY
Prezoning of the property bounded by Red Hill Avenue,
Walnut Avenue, Navy Way and the AT & SF Spur Track to
· "P-C" Planned Ccmmunity and approval of Development
Plan for said property.
i, lr. Supin~er prescnted ~he staff report, explaining the
Existing Conditions, Proposed Zoaing and Uses, Land Use
Breakdown, Surrounding Conditions, Departmental C~.m~nts
and recommended that it be bent to the City Council for
adoption.
Mr. Supinger then read a letter from the Marine Corps Air
Base, E1 Toro (Santa Ana), signed by Col. E. G. Glidden, Jr.,
Commander, opposing such zoninF,. A letter from Commissioner
Harry Brand was read s~'ating his comments and feelings on
this application in.his absence. Letters from the OranF, e
County Planning, voicing no opposition and tile Orange County
Flood Control District was ~aad for the audience and tile
benefit of the public.
Commissioner Hafner disqualified himself from any discussion
because of conflict of interest due to his employment.
Chairman :.karsters o'~ened tile hearinil to the public at 8:45 P.M.
}ir. Dick Reese, irvine Co., stated ,'hat he would be glad to
answer any questions and gave a presentation along with ex-
hibits. He explained that tl.e area is presently zoned for
Residential Agricultural. The proposed P-C zone also provides
for single family developmen~ and is in keeping ~'fth the type
of zoning. Nr. Reese indicated that the exhibit on the wall
in Area i represents a more conventional subdivision - Area 6
is slightly higher density for single family and Area 8 is
even a little higher density. Area 6 reflects row-house types
~lere the open green space might blend in with the neighbor-
hood park. Area 8 might reflect with ti~e railroad, and flood
control. Tile organization of the P-C zone follows this general
pattern. The zoning reflects the fact that there is a minimum
difference regarding whether it is side yard or rear yard.
They are comparable to the area planned in your normal standard
ordinance.
l';e intend ~o file the Tentative Tract }lap and at that time we
will be glad to review with you tile entire 189 acres. We are
also develop£ng design criteria for new h~,e design. This in-
cludes land planned for tile total c~nmunity such as street
trees and landscaping. I would like to point ou~ that this is
in the P-C proposal.
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Planning Commission i'-inutes
February 13, 1967
Mr. Rcese mentioned in Commissioner Brand's letter that
he h,nd voiced concern over ~'he inadequate school situation
and said that they were wor]~ing with the~e school districts
now, to build a new jt, nior High School.
Col. C. L. Br[~,ht, Co:mnandin;.: Officer - stated that the }karine
Corps strongly objects to this application. He stated that to
change the existing zoning, it would be a problem for the safety
and welfare to the public. He described the hazards of all types
of aircraft and showed panels, explaining aircraft crashes which
occur in proximity within five (5~ miles.
Col. Bright referred to a Supreme Court statement which said
"if zoning is reasonable it will be upheld in court." l{e
mentioned the accident at Leisure World and pointed out that
this is what would happen someday in this present land develop-
ment - he did not know when, but it would happen. He said that
they had no way of predicting or preventing this.
lie felt that something better could be worked out that we could
all live with. He stated his reasons why they cannot seem to
work out a decision with the Irvine Company.
Tile Irvine Company l~as every right to develop this land, there
seems to be no question of that. What can the ilarine Corps do?
We can be careful. We are flying these airplanes and we have
good pilots but still on occasion, they crash. 1~ can and we
will take every precaution to prevent these crashe~, but I
ti~ink this indicates that ti%ere is a hazard proximity with
resident's hoar, es.
In this instance, the changing of the flight pattern would
not have a tremendous effect on tills piece of land. We can
depend upon high density traffic.
The final factor is the kind of money you are willing to spend
to build a new runway. The action of tile zoning is public wel-
fare, Ti%e value in 1942 was arot,nd two million dollars as it
stands. To removc it to San':a Aha would cost between eighty
and ninety million dol;ars. Finally when we considdred what
else could be done - we came to the Planning Commission.
The Planning Commission and City Co.ncil have the final say
on what can or cannot be done. The ?ustin Area General Plan
is a good plan - let it be said that we feel a part of Tustin.
We are making our plans on tile ass~nption that it will grow
and realize it's full potential.
There are limits to what the Irvine Company can do and w'nat
the l,;arine Corps can do and the decision rests upon you. Why
doesn't the i.:arine Corps buy it? This is not tile issue before
the house - the question is on zoning.
Col. Bright closed by saying, they intended to continue to dis-
cuss these matters that revolve around living together in the
same area and hopefully will come up with something. There it
is gentlemen - our reasons for opposing the plan.
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Planning Commission Minutes
February 13, 1967
~.~r. \rthur Nisson, land o~-ner, "I i]ave a few questions
base([ upong the fact that I have twenty (20) acres across
from Red Hill. ~.~e are forced at thi~; time to consider other
uses besides orange groves for this property. We have
grown oranges for the past fifty (50) years and it is a dead
loss each year. We are faced with becoming one of the last
groves for residential areas. .'. mobilehcme park might: be a
suitable use Co this ;,rea. ~.!e would propose to come in about
i0 units to ti~e acre. We have no definite plans yet and would
like for the Commission to consider this. Would [tv[ne oppose
this? .\re they going to sell or lease their land? Where are
they going to start?"
We are s~,pathetic witi~ the blarine Corps but it does occur to
us that there is a risk any where you do it. It is true, that
no Government agency has enough money to buy enough land to
make it reasonably safe, according to what you call reasonable.
};r. Reese answering ::he questions asked previously by Mr. Nisson,
said ti[at their intent was to basically lease tile land and they
would comnm,]ce opposite Sycamore and go northerly to Walnut.
;';r. Rease complimented Col. Bright and the Marine Corps for
their cooperation on the planning of the East 'rustle co,m~unity.
He also staled that ti,e Irvine. Co., is withholding any action
for land use on any other area pending the completion of
studies with the r.:ilitary.
2.;r. Reesc opined that the C{ty and County staff say that there
is no conflict with the adopted General Plan.
There being no further con~.ments or objections, Chairman
l,~ar~ters closed the hearing at 9:30 P.M.
Oster asked if there was any problem with the Orange
Cou~ty Flood Control and M:'. Supinger said that there wasn't.
¥.r. [!alus said the point ha:.: been made of the cnrrent zoning
based on -~he ?-C. WI:at is the average lot area?
:<r. Reese said it would average approximately 6500 sq. ft. per
lot and dwelling.
Mr. ilalus asked if they took the total area under consideration
would riley come out with Less than that. Mr. Reese answered No,
in fact it would be more titan 7200. We feel that the open space
and public park is much more meaninsful than the extra feet on
each lot. It can result in an equally good living environment.
~;r. Oster commented that we }]ave reached a point of dilemma
and doomed if we do and (loomed if wc don't. I am not in favor
of taking that zoning away from them. The density involved
does not include ~.he risk. I think it is a good project.
I:' was moved by :.:r. qster, seconded by :.:r. Bacon that the
General Plan be amended from \gricultural to Medium
])ensJtv Residential and that the Commission adoRt Resolution
No. 876 recommending \pplication PZ-67-103 be g, ranted for the
followinF, reasons:
1. That the proposed plans would conform to tile Tustin ,\rea
General Plan as amended.
2. The m~nute:; and evidence made at the hearing be included
by reference and m~de a part of th(~ motion.
3. Tha~ the site develoMnent standards submitted wtth the
PZ-67-103 be :~dop'~ed.
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Planning Commiss£on Minutes
February 13, 1967
OLD
BUSINESS
VI.
NEW
BUSINESS
VII.
CORRESPONDENCE
:<r. Rourke stated that the Planning Commission is here
to determine what is a feasible use for that property.
Chairman ~:arscers asked Col. Bright if they could change
their flight patterns.
Col. Bri:~,ht said that the flight pattern you see going out
is not. the pri~rmry problem and mentioned that he had flown
several days ago and was still right above the Walnut school.
It is almost impossible to stay out of the dead-man's curve.
Yes, we can change our flight pattern but what worries us is
the effect of the aircraft flying around that falls. We can-
not foresee where the aircraft is going to fall.
l.:r. Sharp opined that the lrvine property could proceed with-
out any additional approval and Mr. Supinger said the only
approval that would be required is the subdivision map.
i.!r. Shard wanted to know if it should be a P-C development
or allowed to go a "piece-meal" R-1 development.
bir. Supinger explained that the land could not be brought
into the City ~R, but without prezoning the land would co~e
in as Unclassified, and would require a Use Permit.
The above motion was voted by Roll Call: Ayes:
~iarsters, llalus, Bacon. Noes: None. Absent:
}~r. Hefner. Motion carried 5-0.
Oster, Sharp,
Brand. Abstained:
NO~
POSSIBLE ;C-:~;D}hENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE RE: ACCESSORY
STRUCTERE ON THE FRONT ONE-II\LF OF THE LOT.
].;r. Supinger informed the Commission that they may
want to set up a workshop on this matter and could
possibly discuss, it hatter.
~,:r. Halus stated that he would like more time to study
this and };r. Oster concurred.
1. TRACT MAP 6110
Extension of Tract
l.~'r. Supinser gave a brief report reco,m~ending that a one
(1) year extension be granted.
}ir. Halus wanted to know the basis for the extension and
mentioned that in the letter from the property owner,
there was no reason given for the request.
¥~r. Hefne. ragreed with Mr. Halus and opined that he could
not see any adverse harm in extending this if it was re-
quired, but felt that there should be some reason for the
request.
It was moved by i<r. Hefner, seconded bv ~,;r. Qster that
Tentative Tract :.;ap 6110 be granted a one year extension.
Motion carried 6-0.
2. LETTER FROM MRS. FORSTER
Re: Trailer Sales and Services etc., in C-1 District.
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Planning Commission }[~nutes
February 13, 1967
VIII.
OTHER
BUSINESS
IX.
AD JOURA~EN T
:qr. Sup[nger informed the Conm~ission that Mrs. Forster
had asked that u'.nis item i:e delayed due to her not being
able to attend tonight's meeting.
\RC:i] TECTUR \L C0:-2'i] T FEE :':gE lINGS
Mr. Supinize__r tobl the Co;nz:Jssion that in the interest of
better serving the public, he would lkie to schedule the
.%rchitectural Comm...ittee meetings more frequently. He
stated that he felt it was not necessary to call a meeting
everyti~;e :, plan was submitted b,t did feel that once a
week would be sufficient and ~,t the most, the developer
would not have to walt over one week for their approval.
:.;r. Sharp asked if the increase in volumn was the reason
for this request or was there an increase and Mr. Supznger
said, no more than usual, but felt that it would be difficult
to hold a tir,~e open for meetings if it was not scheduled,
because at times the plans did sometimms come in bunches.
It was agreed by Mr. Supinger, }:r. Sharp and }:r. Bacon that
tile Architectural Committee meeting would hold a regularly
scheduled meeting on each Friday of the week unless otherwise
notified.
It was moved by ~.:r. Bacon? seconded by Mr. Oster that the
meeting be adiourned. };orion carried
There being no other business before the Planning Commission,
the meeting adjourned at 10:17 P.M.
/ S ECI~ET,kRY
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