HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-09-81 (SPECIAL MEETING)110117--al
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DATE: November 5, 1981
inter-Com
TO: Honorable Mayor and City Counc:ffl
FROM: Bill Huston, City Manager
SUBJECT: NOVEMBER 9, 1981 SPECIAL MEETING
A Special Meeting of the City Council has been noticed for 5:00 p.m., Monday, November
9, 1981® The meeting will convene as a closed session®
Attached for the Council's review are the transcribed excerpts of the October 6, 1980
Redevelopment Agency meeting and the January 5, 1981 Planning Agency meeting concern-
ing the 150-160 El Camino Real office building. A model of the building approved by
the Agency on January 5, 1981 will be available at the November 9 Special Meeting.
At the Special Meeting, I will make recommendations with regard to:
1. Lowering the height of the building by 5-®7 feet.
2. Restricting the height of buildings in areas designated by the City
Council to two stories (e.g. El Camino Real),
3. Revising the development review process to ensure there is no confusion
or misunderstanding concerning required and approved design standards
for any buildings which involve Agency or Council approval.
Bill Huston ff
City Manager
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REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY MEETING - 10-6-80
Brotemarkle This is within the Redevelopment and even more specifically, this particular site
is within the El Camino Design district. The property was the subject of a pre-
vious Use Permit approval by the Planning Agency for a tiled roof, three story
office complex which included a plaza walkthru between El Camino and the Pepper-
tree Park. The property has now been purchased by other parties who are going to
be in the near future to file applications for development and they submitted
their preliminary plans which essentially reflected, I think as you can see, a
glass modern contemporary motiff in the El Camino Real. After having been through
the Public Hearing on the property with this body serving as the Planning Agency
on the property at Holt and Irvine concerning a very similar structure that was
proposed there and the concern over its appropriateness at that location, it was
staff's feeling that this should properly be brought to the Redevelopment Agency
for their consideration of design direction and direction for the property owner
in that regard. I do believe that
Saltarelli Do we not have any implementing resolution of approval that the archectectural
style was part of that - part of the El Camino area.
Brotemarkle No.
Saltarelli Well, the developer stated very distinctly to us at that time that he knew that
the plans for the development agency, in fact, I recall asking the developer if he
he was planning to build the building or to sell the, sell the map, and that's
obviously what he has done. Is that correct?
Brotemarkle Correct. This applicant would now be essentially starting over from scratch again
with a new Use Permit.
Saltarelli Now, does anyone believe that we're getting what we approved in terms of the
architecture of this, in keeping with the design plan that we had established when
we approved that building.
Kennedy Have we communicated with this company and why do they wish to do this?
Brotemarkle Correct. I do believe they have a representative in the audience who might wish
to address the agency so that they might seek some guidance and direction on this
matter. Come forth.
Letterman Good afternoon. My name is Ken Letterman. I am representing the architect and ;3
representative of the owner also in the audience. We have a, when we went into
this project, we weren't that aware of the constraints of the Redevelopment
Agency. The only thing we had was your resolution. We have carried it to this
point and have brought it here before you before it goes into Planning Commission
and before you have to give a formal approval to more or less run it by you, I
guess would be the best term, to get your feelings on it. We have a model of the
project to show you the concept that we're proposing, if you'd like to see that.
Saltarelli We'd like to see that, certainly.
Letterman
Okay. Where would you like this?
Saltarelli
What are we gonna do with that? Uh, perhaps up on Mrs. Kennedy's ledge there.
Letterman
The concept as we propose is a two-story office building raised over the parking
area. The site is very narrow, as I'm sure you are well aware. We've proposed
to drive through the underground, it's not underground actually, it's just
underneath the building. The parking would be at-grade with the building over
that area. We've pulled the building away from both of the sidelines so that the,
as you can see, the cars are exposed to the outside light so that the building no
longer goes from side property line to side property line as it did before. The,
both entries on C Street and El Camino Real are identical. They both have
waterfalls in the plaza, that's the blue element at each end of the buildingi and
they both have entry plazas then that are also over the parking that would lead
you into the first level of the building.
Kennedy
How many feet high is it?
Letterman
Thirty feet, I believe it is, if my memory serves me right. It's less than 35.
Saltarelli
(Incomprehensible) the parking is underground, or at-grade parking?
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Letterman At-grade, but under the building.
Kennedy (Incomprehensible).
Letterman Yeah, yeah, less than 35, anyway. I think it's 30 feet. There are some dimen-
sions on there, we can't read them from here though.
Saltarelli It doesn't look as imposing on the model as it does on the paper, does it? Essen-
tially, the narrow portion of the building will be facing C Street and El Camino?
Letterman Yes, sir.
Saltarelli And that you have a large landscaped area with the waterfall facing so that the
immensity of the windows will be to the side lots, behind the motel.
Letterman That's correct.
Sharp Uh, Mr.?
Saltarelli Council?
Sharp I'm wondering if the architect had had an opportunity to review ordinance 510 and
is, was, familiar with the paragraph that's, that's quoted here because it doesn't
seem that the design solution necessarily addressed itself to that, to that para-
graph. Did you have these standards at hand before you began the design?
Letterman Unfortunately, I personally didn't until we had submitted it, I saw a copy of the
ordinance. Whether or not we asked, I can't answer that question at the proper
time. But, when I picked up the ordinance we had submitted the drawings, and the
ordinance, the ordinance as I recall, doesn't relate to a specific style, it just
gives some general, very general guidelines.
Sharp That's correct. But your solution is such a radical departure from, you know, no
matter how you interpreted that paragraph, one would not read that it precipitated
the kind of vocabulary that you have there.
Letterman To the best of my knowledge, we were not aware of the resolution in the way it was
stated when we designed the building. We made some initial inquiries with the
Planning staff, our design staff did, and most of the paperwork came across my
desk when that gentleman came back to the office, and there was no resolution in
his paperwork, so.
Letterman I understand perfectly. I live in Mission Viejo.
Saltarelli Okay. I don't know how the rest of the Council feels. But myself, I'm not as
concerned as I was when I saw this package originally, but I would still think
that something, if it is possible, to be done to from a design point of view that
could make some modifications to, particularly the area that faces El Camino.
Sharp Mr. Chairman, I think you need to recall also, though, that at least the existing
structures on the north and south of this, which are then parellel to the long
elevations, are predominantly one-story. And so you're going to be able to see
above those a story and a half, at least.
Saltarelli
Sharp
Saltarelli
Sharp
Letterman
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But the motel there, I think, is two stories that runs along the one side.
Yeah, that's two there.
There is a little one-story building on El Camino Real, I think, that leads into
the motel.
Yeah (incomprehensible).
Letterman There is a one-story converted store, if you will, on El Camino Real that leads
into the two-story motel area. The motel actually backs right up almost on the
property line. And then, on the other side of the property are some older homes.
I don't know what your intentions are there, but they're really old homes and
that's, that's all that's on that block.
Hoesterey Through the chair.
Sharp Another question I have is, is this El Camino Real elevation drawing, what,
that's, that's what the building was going to look like when some other develop,
we were working with some other developer, is that, yeah.
Saltarelli Correct.
Sharp Okay.
Saltarelli But that did utilize the entire width of the property.
Sharp Yes, I remember, I remember.
Saltarelli . . . It was something that we were concerned with at the time and I like this,
the width of this much better. Ron, do you have. .?
Hoesterey Yeah, basically I think we have picked a theme for the downtown area, and the
Redevelopment Agency itself is going to be spending millions in that area to main-
tain that theme, so I think if a redesign could be done to be in conformity of
that theme, it would be in the best interests of a long-range for the community.
Edgar I would have to agree with that, and reindicate that, you know, the treatment is a
facade. It doesn't, it's not something that's structural. But structurally
you've achieved everything that looks like a very efficient utilization of the
property, and yet, it's the appearance that is of concern.
Kennedy Through the chair.
Saltarelli Yes.
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Brotemarkle It just depends on how early American you want.
Letterman Well, we're willing to do, you know, within reason the things that would make this
building a part of the community. obviously, the owner has no intention of coming
in here and forcing his way into the community. This building's going to be here
awhile. I guess what we're asking, we're asking of you today is some kind of
direction. If this doesn't fit, what do you conceive belongs there?
Saltarelli Do you want individual opinions?
Letterman Uh, you know, what, what kinds of things would you then be looking for when we
make the formal presentation?
Saltarelli Myself, I like the shape of it, the design of it. I think the landscaping
treatment you have in the front with the waterfalls on each side is very
pleasing. Perhaps if you had a treatment of bricks around the side, as opposed to
as much glass and stuff like that it would soften it to me and probably still fit
in with any general theme. This is my view. You could ask everybody else what
their thoughts are.
Saltarelli Well, there's a good example right down the street where the Chastain Art Gallery
is, where the old City Hall property was, it's a very brand new modern building.
But yet they used alot of slumpstone and stucco, and
Letterman It fit in with the buildings.
Saltarelli Yeah, yet that's certainly not Spanish, it's certainly not early American, it's
certainly not alot of those things, but it. .
Letterman So, it's not the style necessarily, it's more material use?
Sharp Just say something, anyhow. Well, it seems to me that we did work for some time
with an earlier designer on the use of this property. Am I correct? And they did
come up with something that looks like what we have on this, it's not numbered,
but it's this one, you know, and we worked sometime on that, and I'm wondering why
the radical departure at this point by another developer who has come in and
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Saltarelli I think this one had undergrounded parking.
Sharp Yes, it did. The other one did.
Letterman The other one had underground parking. It was also designed to, for a single
tenant, primary single tenant usage.
Saltarelli I had clot of good concerns with this one, frankly, because of the amount of
square footage that was in there and the amount of traffic generation, and I don't
remember what the total square footage of this one was, but is yours less?
Letterman A little bit. Not significantly, but, uh . .
Saltarelli But for multi-tenant use?
Letterman But for multi-tenant use, yes. That is really the primary reason for the, the
change, if you will. We have, there's a new owner on the property and the
single-owner concept, single-user concept was no longer valid.
Letterman Yes, I think so. And we certainly appreciate you taking your time to take a look
at it.
Saltarelli Thank you very much for your cooperation. We appreciate it. Okay, uh, that com-
pletes the Redevelopment Agency. A motion to adjourn back to the City Council is
appropriate.
Edgar Move it.
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PLANNING AGENCY MEETING - 1-5-81
Edgar our first item is a public hearing on Use Permit 81-1. Uh, Mike will you. . .
Edgar Are there any technical questions of staff? Hearing none, I'll open the public
hearing and anyone wishing to speak either for or against this issue, please come
to the podium and state your name and address and be heard.
Edgar Now we don't know what the timing might be. Mr. Brotemarkle,® could you respond
to that?
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Edgar Does that, ah, address your . .
Sharp Allright, then your recommendation is to authorize, as I understand it now, is
that the County Fire Marshal (incomprehensible).
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Brotemarkle I would say the only thing that I would do is to, if the, in terms of the sprin-
kler system is to just say installation of a fire protection system with plans
approved by the Orange County Fire Marshal's office. That probably would simplify
the matters and then if it were decided to change it later it would just have to
be plans approved by the Orange County Fire Marshal.
Edgar Are there any other questions, any other comments, you want to make at this time?
Letterman No, sir. Thank you very much.
Edgar
Thank you. Is there anyone else that wishes to speak at this time in the open
public hearing. Hearing none, I'll close the public hearing and open the item
for
Agency discussion.
Kennedy
I have a couple of questions. Uh, how were the surrounding property owners
noti-
fied?
Brotemarkle
Uh, in the case of this, all property owners, which is a Use Permit, and all
prop-
erty owners within a 300 ft. radius were notified by mail.
Kennedy
By mail, and have you had any reactions at all?
Brotemarkle
We've had no reactions directly to this proposal, but more to the potential
rezon-
ing of some of the R-2 properties to commercial.
Edgar
Let me make one comment, Ursula. There is a letter that Mrs. Jenny Flaherty
wrote
and let me just read the, uh, I just got it this very second, and her words
are "I
trust that the new building on El Camino Real and C Street will not, repeat
not,
clutter El Camino Real with parked cars or employees as occurs with all the
other
new buildings, most specifically, El Camino Real and Second Street." And so
she's
voicing concern over the potential parking on the structure.
Kennedy Um, another question of staff. In the recommendation from staff, staff approves
the parking layout as long as the parking, underground parking, is under the con-
trol of a security gate, or in other words, it will not be used by the general
public.
Brotemarkle It's under the direct control of the building management. It may be open to the
general public during working hours, but it would be under their direct control
rather than just . .
Kennedy But they're going to control it either through security gates or through some
measure of control. How, it's not included in the resolution, but I saw that this
is part of the conditions of approval, unless I missed it.
Brotemarkle It's really been more policy that in underground parking structures, since they
are not as accessible to the general public, that they've been deemed to be more
secure than in general. anyway. And we really have'nt ever adopted it as a condi-
tion that they be totally secure in that nature.
Kennedy Yeah, I'm more concerned about what happens five years later when, perhaps, some-
body else buys the building. Since obviously it's a little tighter than alot of
things we approve, uh, would an abuse occur? Do you think it's adequate the way
it is?
Brotemarkle We believe that it's adequate the way it is with the one-way circulation system,
in the circulation system and the herringbone parking that we don't need a wider
aisle width of this particular item. But this parking is basically very similar
to the plan that was proposed by Mr. Hackenberry which was designed with, only the
aisle widths have been widened. I do believe at that time we approved approxi-
mately 14 ft. width instead of 17.
Kennedy And one last question. They are short four parking spaces. Uh, in the studies
we've done, we have found that our, if my memory serves me, we have found that our
parking requirements are enough so that that may not be a problem. I'm always
hesitant to approve something that is underparked. Can you react to that? I
assume it's going to be a professional building.
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Kennedy And has every advantage been taken of the new trend toward smaller cars?
Brotemarkle As a matter of fact, we've been taking maxim tun advantage of the trend toward
smaller cars.
Brotemarkle I'll have to defer to Bob on that question.
Ledendecker (Inaudible, not speaking into microphone at podium.)
Sharp So that would happen prior to the time that you gave final approval and issued an
occupancy permit on this project.
Ledendecker (Inaudible)
Sharp Is this in District 1 or 7?
Ledendecker (Inaudible)
Sharp Thank you. That's not all my motion, but I am now satisfied with it. The only
correction to 1938 would be the word "protection" to replace the word "sprinklers"
on the first page.
Edgar Is there a second?
Kennedy I'll second. Under discussion. The way I'm going to vote is going to be assisted
by what staff can tell me about the City's attempt to find some parking in the
downtown area. Could someone bring me up to date on that?
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