HomeMy WebLinkAbout01 PC Minutes 10-14-02ITEM #1
MINUTES
TUSTIN PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 14, 2002
7:00 p.m.
CALL TO ORDER
Given
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
All present
ROLL CALL
Staff present
Elizabeth Binsack, Community Development Director
Doug Holland, Assistant City Attorney
Karen Peterson, Senior Planner
Matt West, Assistant Planner
Eloise Harris, Recording Secretary
None
PUBLIC CONCERNS
Approved
CONSENT CALENDAR
,
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 23, 2002,
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
It was moved by Jennings, seconded by Hamilton, to approve
the Consent Calendar. Motion carried 5-0.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Continued to
October 28, 2002,
Planning Commission
meeting
,
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 02-004 AND DESIGN
REVIEW 02-008 A REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A 1,320
SQUARE FOOT CHOIR ROOM EXPANSION AT AN
EXISTING CHURCH FACILITY. THIS PROJECT IS
LOCATED AT 1201 IRVINE BOULEVARD IN THE
PUBLIC AND INSTITUTIONAL (P&I) ZONING
DISTRICT.
RECOMMENDATION:
That the Planning Commission adopt Resolution No.
3846 approving Conditional Use Permit 02-004 and
Design Review 02-008.
Minutes- Planning COmmission October 14, 2002 - Page 1
7:04 p.m. The Public Hearing opened.
West
Hamilton
West
Hamilton
West
Director
Hamilton
Director
Jennings
Kozak
Nielsen
West
Presented the staff report, referring specifically to the change in
the hours of operation table in Condition 3.1.
Asked staff why it is necessary to restrict the hours of operation
from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. daily.
Answered those hours were established in previous
applications to coincide with daily business hours and were
used to establish the parking needs of this applicant.
Stated his belief that the events of September 11, 2001, require
a change in this requirement; Aldersgate has been a good
neighbor and hourly limits should only relate to the daycare
facility.
Noted this property was originally zoned R-l, is surrounded by
residential properties, and hours of operation were established
to ensure compatibility with the existing uses; special events
can be accommodated through a temporary use permit
process.
Added that these conditions are consistent with those imposed
on other assembly facilities located within close proximity to
residentially developed property; the Church at Tustin Ranch
and Salvation Army are examples.
Stated his recollection that the Church at Tustin Ranch had no
hourly or use restrictions.
Responded that restrictions similar to the one in this application
were included as a table in that application.
Agreed that this proposal is very similar to the Church at Tustin
Ranch, which was approved.
Stated a similar recollection.
Asked if there was discussion between staff and the applicant
regarding the landscape screening called for in Condition 4.1.
Indicated the applicant proposed less screening; staff
recommended that more landscaping be implemented to
minimize the visual impact of the building mass along Irvine
Boulevard.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 2
Nielson
Director
Denny
West
Denny
West
Denny
Peterson
Denny
West
Denny
Director
Jennings
Peterson
Asked for clarification of Condition 6.2 regarding the
requirement for repair of public sidewalks.
Stated any repair would be associated with damage occurring
during construction.
Asked if the table for the use restrictions was created to satisfy
the parking requirement.
Responded in the affirmative.
Stated his understanding that any use beyond the table would
exceed the parking presently available at the site.
Answered in the affirmative; and, added that any type of
expansion or modification of use would require a conditional
use permit.
Asked if uses being extended from 6:00 a.m to 11:00 p.m.
would exceed the parking availability.
Stated the second part of Condition 3.1 puts a cap on the
number of people allowed on the property at one time; the
hours and days of operation and numbers of people allowed
should combine to allow sufficient parking at all times.
Asked if, since 1982, the City has received complaints from
neighbors about the usage of this facility.
Responded that staff is unaware of any prior complaints.
Inquired whether staff routinely checks to determine whether or
not a particular use has received complaints in the past; and, if
so, would that information be brought to the Planning
Commission.
Indicated, if recent complaints were made, that information
would be included in the background or history of a project.
Asked if, since there is a shortage of meeting rooms in the City,
the church would be willing to allow public meetings if that
condition were removed.
Stated that Condition 3.2 was proposed by the applicant.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 3
Jennings
Director
Kozak
Jennings
Kozak
Director
Richard Rengel,
representing the
applicant
Kozak
Mr. Rengel
Kozak
Mr. Rengel
Questioned whether the applicant's agreeing during this public
hearing to letting the facility out to other groups would allow the
condition be removed.
Answered in the affirmative.
Asked if Commissioner Jennings was recommending deletion
of Condition 3.2.
Answered in the affirmative.
Stated the colored rendering of the site shows mature trees;
and, noted his concern that 24-inch box trees will not provide
the landscaping necessary to make the site aesthetically
pleasing.
Indicated that during the preliminary design phase, staff
requested that more architectural articulation be provided from
a building perspective; the applicant chose to proceed with the
plan before the Commission; staff felt a compromise would be
to soften the mass with some landscaping improvements.
Stated he was there to answer any questions the Commission
might have regarding the project; noted the site is not close
enough to residential uses to create a noise problem; stated
the applicant would like to see the hours of operation changed
from 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. to midnight, adding
that functions going beyond that time only occur about three
times a year; and, indicated alternate designs were suggested
to which the green screen was the acceptable compromise.
Asked if any type of cornice at the parapet line was considered.
Indicated in the affirmative, but nothing seemed appropriate.
Asked if windows were considered in the front elevation to
provide some vertical break-up.
Stated the windows considered were horizontal and did not fit
well with the elevation off Irvine Boulevard; indicated vertical
windows would not be a good choice for a choir room due to
sound problems; suggested spandrel glass or something
similar might be a possibility; and, asked for clarification
regarding use of'the choir room on Sundays.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 4
West
Nielsen
Mr. Rengel
Jennings
Mr. Rengel
Denny
Mr. Rengel
John Moseley,
12888 Elizabeth
Way
Kozak
Staff
7:34 p.m.
Hamilton
Director
Nielsen
Answered that staff recommended a modification to Condition
3.2 that would allow the sanctuary and the choir room to
operate daily.
Asked if the west-facing doors onto the pedestrian walkway
and driveway are storage doors that will not be used except to
move things in and out and if the second door is intended as a
regular use door.
Answered the door referred to is a fire door; the main entrance
would be the double doors closer to the sanctuary.
Asked if the applicant would be willing to let out the choir room.
Answered in the affirmative.
Asked if the applicant has received an estimate of the
landscaping cost suggested by staff.
Responded in the negative, indicating the landscape changes
were a recent development.
Stated the church is directly behind his home; noted he and his
wife are neither in favor of nor in opposition to the project;
stated that noise from the parking lot at night is an ongoing
problem; indicated he has spoken to people at the church
requesting abatement of the noise; indicated the proposed
changes look nice; and, asked the applicant to consider his
noise concerns.
Asked staff to confirm the operations must comply with the
Tustin Noise Ordinance.
Answered in the affirmative.
The Public Hearing closed.
Asked staff the cost for a temporary use permit.
Indicated four events per year would be allowed for one fee of
$95.00.
Stated the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. seem reasonable;
and, indicated the green screen seems extensive--127 new
trees or plants for a 1,300 square foot addition.
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 5
Peterson
Nielsen
Peterson
Jennings
Denny
Jennings
Denny
Hamilton
Noted that a number of one-gallon shrubs are included in that
number.
Suggested staff might consider reducing the number to lower
the costs for the applicant since the applicant initially requested
a thinner green screen.
Stated it was staff's intention to have the trees screen the bulk
of the massing; the one-gallon shrubs are not going to provide
a green screen; staff would recommend that the number of
shrubs be reduced, but the number of recommended trees be
maintained.
Asked that Condition 3.2 be eliminated; stated she believes the
hours of 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. are adequate, noting her
empathy for Mr. Moseley as she lives across from a church
herself; suggested the proposed screening is appropriate; and,
asked if bigger trees could be required at the start.
Stated he opposes the staff and/or Planning Commission
setting the hours of operation for a conference room at a
church; referred to staff's never having received a complaint
regarding church operations before Mr. Moseley's this evening;
suggested that Conditions 3.1 and 3.2 be omitted and
Condition 3.3 be retained, allowing the Planning Commission to
revisit the issue if there are problems in the future; and,
indicated his concern regarding the church's cost of breaking
up a new block wall to accommodate landscaping.
Suggested perhaps changing the office and conference hours
to "daily" would better accommodate the neighbors.
Responded that the church has an obligation to the neighbors,
but the City is not obligated to tell a church that it cannot open
before 7:00 a.m. without having to go the City and ask for a
temporary use permit; and, stated if these conditions stand, he
cannot support the application.
Stated his agreement with Commissioner Denny; the Noise
Ordinance would apply if the church is creating noise late at
night; the lack of complaints in the past would suggest there is
not a problem; the residents on Elizabeth Way might want to
arrange a meeting with church representatives; people should
be allowed to worship all night if the need arises; a church is
different from a business; if Condition 3.1 restricting the use of
the church remains, he will not support the application.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 6
Kozak
Director
Kozak
Hamilton
Director
Hamilton
Peterson
Nielsen
Director
Asked for guidance from the Director, specifically regarding the
findings that might be necessary to make the changes
requested.
Noted the Planning Commission sets precedents regarding
common conditions for various uses; staff views this application
not as a church use but an assembly-type use since what the
individuals are doing inside the structure is not the issue, but
how the use may impact the surrounding properties; the
Commission has the ability to remove conditions, but that may
eliminate future conditions the Commission might want to
impose on other assembly-type uses; for example, nightclubs,
movie theaters, and similar activities are considered assembly-
type uses; staff can provide more flexibility in the conditions if
that would bring the Commission closer to a consensus, or the
application can be continued for two weeks.
Indicated his reluctance in continuing the item thereby holding
up the application, but would like to achieve some consensus
regarding Condition 3.1; asked that the applicant's request to
change the hours to 6:00 a.m. to midnight be considered; and,
asked if Commissioner Jennings' suggestion replacing the
Monday through Friday restriction with "daily from 7:00 a.m. to
7:00 p.m." in order to address the assembly uses would be
acceptable.
Asked what time of night the Noise Ordinance takes effect--
whether 10:30 p.m. would differ from 3:00 a.m.
Answered the peace cannot be disturbed at any time of the
day; at a residential property line, a maximum of 55 interior and
65 exterior decibel levels are acceptable; the level is higher for
'commercial and industrial properties.
Asked if that varies at different times of the day.
Stated 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. are considered night-time hours;
7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. are considered evening hours; all other
hours are considered day-time hours.
Asked if something could be drafted to include half a dozen
special events without having the applicant go through a
conditional use permit process.
Responded that staff could prepare language for the
Commission's consideration.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 7
Kozak
Asked if that could be accomplished tonight or the application
should be brought back at a later time.
Director
Indicated staff was prepared to do whatever the Commission
desires.
Kozak
Asked if the process for a use permit for special events could
be included in the conditions of approval.
Director
Answered in the affirmative.
Nielsen
Stated his intention was that the applicant not be required to
continually come back to the City for permits.
Jennings
Noted that Mr. Rengel indicated this use would probably take
place three times a year which does not seem like a burden on
the church; suggested that circumstances such as 9-11
observances would be something the City would probably
allow in all the churches; stated she would like to see the
sanctuary, choir room, and perhaps the conference room be
allowed daily use between 7:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m.
Hamilton
Stated he does not see the similarity between movie theaters
and churches in terms of extending the hours of use, since
churches do not have a for-profit motive.
Jennings
Indicated her concern related to the issue of setting a
precedent.
Hamilton
Suggested that no court of law would see 100 assembly uses
as the same; a church would differ significantly from a movie
theater; a church should have its own category.
Holland
Stated that was a good point; however, with impacts from
conditionally permitted uses, there is little distinction between a
church and other assembly uses; there are other kinds of social
activities that could be happening on the church premises;
code enforcement has had a number of situations dealing with
properties holding wedding receptions that go late into the night
and create problems; as a governmental entity, the City is not
attempting to deal with regulation of religious activity but cannot
distinguish religious from other kinds of assembly uses; when
there is a large number of people gathering together, potential
problems must be addressed and dealt with; that is what staff
is trying to do with tonight's recommendations.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 8
Nielsen
Denny
Holland
Denny
Director
Denny
Director
Denny
Reiterated that Aldersgate has been a good neighbor; there is
a fire station and another church behind the property that
create occasional noise; and, suggested that, in a spirit of
cooperation, it would be appropriate to look at those few times
when the church has special events and incorporate those into
the application in order to resolve the issue.
Asked the Assistant City Attorney if the Planning Commission
is a discretionary body, using its discretion to make findings to
either approve or not approve conditional use permits and
other things.
Stated that, dealing with classic discretionary types of activities
such as General Plan Amendments, zone changes, etc., is
quite different from conditional use permits in a quasi-
adjudicative hearing; the Planning Commission's discretion is
to review an entitlement and determine whether or not it
qualifies for that kind of'an entitlement based upon evidence
that is presented.
Stated his understanding that the Planning Commission would
be making a subjective analysis of an assembly use in this
case; and, added that different findings would be required for a
nightclub. '
Answered that different findings might be made if the
circumstances were different.
Reiterated his point was that the Planning Commission uses its
judgment to make subjective decisions.
Indicated that staff articulated the findings on the first two
pages of the resolution; the Planning Commission could direct
staff to prepare findings for denial for this application, but
direction would be required; findings are based on the Code,
the General Plan, precedents, and potential negative impacts;
when those findings are reviewed, the Planning .Commission is
making a subjective decision based on the findings; there
should be a bridge between the findings and the conditions of
approval.
Stated that, in his judgment upon reviewing the findings and
conditions of approval, one condition should be removed; in
another assembly use, it might be necessary to set hours'
restrictions as a backstop of the Noise Ordinance, but a
backstop is not needed regarding this church; the Planning
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 9
Kozak
Director
Kozak
Nielsen
Kozak
Denny
Kozak
Adopted Resolution
No. 3847
8:14 p.m.
Commission should trust their judgment that the church will be
a good neighbor; if the church is not, other options are
available to enforce compliance.
Noted that this type of condition is applicable in a broader
perspective to other assembly uses; asked staff if a recess
should be called for staff to consider preparing language to
address the issues under discussion.
Indicated it would be better to continue the item to the next
meeting when staff can bring back a modified resolution.
Stated he would like the condition to state that a final
landscape plan will be submitted to the Community
Development Director; and, suggested that the five 24-inch box
trees should be included.
Noted his concern was to cut costs for the applicant while
maintaining the aesthetics in the area.
Indicated that was his reason for suggesting a final landscape
plan be submitted and approved by staff.
Asked if Chairman Kozak was suggesting keeping the olive
trees and be less specific regarding the numbers of other
plants.
Answered in the affirmative; and, added that five 24-inch box
trees will not grow fast enough to provide the desired coverage.
It was moved by Kozak to continue this item to the October 28,
2002, Planning Commission meeting, Jennings seconded.
Motion carried 5-0.
.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 02-014 A REQUEST FOR
AUTHORIZATION TO ESTABLISH A VOCATIONAL
SCHOOL AT 1131 EAST MAIN STREET, SUITE 207A,
IN THE PLANNED COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (PC-
COMM) ZONING DISTRICT.
RECOMMENDATION:
That the Planning Commission adopt Resolution No.
3847 approving Conditional Use Permit 02-014.
The Public Hearing opened.
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 10
West Presented the staff report.
Jennings
West
Jennings
Director
Denny
West
Hamilton
Director
Hamilton
Kozak
Linda Barnes,
applicant
Suggested the parking at night and on Saturdays is less
congested than from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on weekdays; and,
asked if there is the possibility the applicant, through a parking
analysis, would be allowed larger classes.
Answered that would be feasible, but there are five property
owners who are bound by an agreement; each property is
restricted by the available parking in the entire center; while it
may be reasonable to assume there would be available
parking during evenings and Saturdays, the established
parking ratios dictate future expansions or new uses in the
center.
Asked if a parking survey were to be completed for the evening
hours applicant might be able to expand the number of
students.
Noted that approval from all five of the property owners would
be required.
Asked if the applicant is proposing a mortgage broker training
school.
Answered in the affirmative.
Referred to his disdain for compact spaces; and, asked for
clarification regarding the parking ratios for medical uses.
Responded that a Code amendment was approved to
distinguish smaller medical office facilities, if under 4,000
square feet, as minor facilities; various studies indicate that
medical offices generate higher turnover and parking needs;
the City has parking guidelines which should be adhered to
unless the Planning Commission wishes to modify the
guidelines.
Stated he has never seen a parking problem at this location.
Indicated that if the applicant is satisfied with the proposal he
supports staff's recommendation.
Noted that being limited to three students will not provide much
income, necessitating a rise in her fees; stated she had a
petition signed by tenants and a letter from a tenant across the
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 11
Kozak
Director
Kozak
Director
Ms. Barnes
Director
Ms. Barnes
Nielsen
Ms. Barnes
Kozak
8:34 p.m.
Jennings
Nielsen
hall from her location agreeing to give up some of his parking
spaces since her classes will be evening only; indicated she
was confused by the traffic review by the Engineering Division;
and, stated she cannot afford the parking analysis.
Asked the Director to respOnd to the applicant's questions and
concerns.
Stated the Traffic Engineer looked at the worst-case scenario
for potential traffic impacts which is a different issue from the
parking; staff attempted to allow as much flexibility as possible,
but did not receive enough information to make a
recommendation to allow more parking; if all five property
owners are willing to work together to grant this tenant more
parking spaces, staff can administratively modify the
application.
Asked if the applicant needed to make that request of the five
property owners.
Answered in the affirmative.
Stated her understanding that the petition signed by tenants
would not be enough.
Indicated authorization is required from the five property
owners, not the tenants, but the petition might be a useful tool
in discussing the parking issue with the property owners.
Stated she will make that attempt.
Asked if carpooling might alleviate the problem.
Stated that her clients will be coming to the location from their
jobs; carpooling is therefore not an option.
Clarified that the applicant will not be required to come back to
the Planning Commission for an amendment; that could be
done at the administrative level.
The Public Hearing closed.
Indicated this is a good use; she hopes the property owners
agree regarding the parking; she supports this project.
Stated his support for the project.
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 12
Denny
Director
Denny
None
Director reported
Kozak
Asked if the parking tabulation takes into consideration the
time of day and the fact that this use will not be taking place
during regular office hours.
Answered that a parking demand analysis would have covered
all those issues; the applicant elected to come before the
Commission without the analysis due to the cost involved.
Indicated that parking in that center is a challenge, especially
between 6:30 p.m. and 9:30 p.m. on Fridays; suggested the
school being closed on Fridays will alleviate parking impacts;
and, stated his support of staff's recommendation.
It was moved by Jennings, seconded by Nielsen, to adopt
Resolution No. 3847. Motion carried 5-0.
REGULAR BUSINESS
STAFF CONCERNS:
.
REPORT OF ACTIONS TAKEN AT THE SEPTEMBER
23 AND OCTOBER 7, 2002, CITY COUNCIL
MEETINGS.
Presentation: Elizabeth A: Binsack, Community
Development Director
The City Council had the first reading of Ordinance 1260
(VVireless Communication Facility Regulations and Guidelines);
the facility on Bryan Avenue will be able to proceed once the
Ordinance is adopted.
Asked the Commissioners to let Eloise Harris know their
availability for the Planning Officials Forum scheduled for
November 14, 2002, as soon as possible as there is a cut-off
point for the best fee for attendance.
Suggested the Commission may want to consider the possibility
of canceling the second meetings of the Planning Commission in
November and December; staff will schedule meetings if not
doing so would create a hardship for applicants.
Stated that procedure has worked well in the past; and, asked
staff to proceed in that direction.
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002- Page 13
Nielsen
Denny
Hamilton
Jennings
Kozak
COMMISSION CONCERNS:
Offered his congratulations to the Anaheim Angels for winning
the American League Pennant and wished them good luck in the
World Series.
Thanked City staff for the enjoyable Tiller Days festivities.
Stated the Civic Center directional sign on Newport and Andrews
has faded to the point of being unreadable.
Thanked staff for their patience with his questions and concerns
regarding tonight's projects.
Congratulated the City staff for a fantastic Tiller Days.
Noted that snipe signs have begun appearing attached to
political signs.
Thanked staff for the reports and their patience regarding the
discussion.
Echoed the other Commissioners' comments regarding Tiller
Days.
Noted the Dino Dash will take place the first Sunday in
November; he will be participating in something to do with
stopwatches.
Indicated she missed Tiller Days due to a visit to New England.
Stated the property at the southwest corner of Irvine and
Newport apparently has a parking problem; a crayon sign stating
"No Bank Parking" has been placed on a cone; while she
understands the problem, perhaps a permanent sign would be
more appropriate.
Stated she is pleased to see the fence up at Albertsons, the cars
gone, and demolishing begun.
Indicated she noticed the water yard lights for the first time this
evening and was pleased by how nice the building looks at night.
Thanked staff for their presentations this evening; and, added,
since looking at one-dimensional renderings does not give one a
sense of the dimensions involved, perhaps future PowerPoint
presentations could be enhanced with one or two digital
photographs.
Minutes - Planning Commission October 14, 2002 - Page 14
Director
Suggested it might also be helpful to take pictures of the
surrounding properties.
Kozak
Thanked the Tiller Days' staff and volunteers.
Thanked staff for the copy of the letter included in the packets
regarding the outstanding Old Town project; and, suggested that
the Cultural Resources Advisory Committee might also consider
putting a temporary sign on such properties to encourage other
residents to make improvements.
Stated the green screen at the Baptist Church on Newport
Avenue has very little green; perhaps code enforcement could
suggest more landscaping.
Denny
Noted the Tustin Pride awards with signs in the yards also
encourage residents to make improvements.
Jennings
Indicated she believes the Cultural Resources Advisory
Committee would probably be happy to do something similar.
8:47 p.m.
ADJOURNMENT
The next regular meeting of the Planning Commission is
scheduled for Monday, October 28, 2002, at 7:00 p.m. in the
Council Chamber at 300 Centennial Way.
Minutes- Planning Commission October 14, 2002- Page 15