HomeMy WebLinkAboutP.C. MINUTES 11-16-81 TUSTIN PLANNING AGENCY
Minutes of Workshop Meeting
October 27, 1981 - 7:30 p.m.
The Planning Agency held a workshop meeting, Tuesday, October 27,
1981, at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the City Hall, 300 Cen-
tennial Way, Tustin, California.
ROLL CALL:
Present:
Edgar, Hoesterey, Kennedy, Sharp
Absent: Saltarelli
Also present:
Michael Brotemarkle, Community Development Director
William Huston, City Manager
USE PERMIT 81-29
Applicant:
Location:
Request:
Cal Pacific Properties
Newport Avenue between Main Street and E1Camino Real
(formerly Laguna Road)
To develop the subject property for commercial, retail
and office use.
Chairman Sharp informed the public that on October 21, 1981 at the
regular Planning Agency meeting there had been a public hearing on
EIR-81-2 and Use Permit 81-29. At that time the Agency did open the
public hearing and after testimony from the public, the Agency did ap-
prove certification of EIR-81-2. The purpose of the workshop was to
consider additional concerns of the public on Use Permit 81-29 for the
proposed development of the Tustin Town Center project. He stated
that staff would not reiterate their report which was presented on
October 21, lg81 but were present to answer any specific questions.
The developer was also present to answer any questions. ·
The public workshop was opened.
Bob Walton, stated he was a resident of Tustin for 20 years and wanted
to know why the proposed development (Tustin Town Center) was good for
the community. He said he foresees two highrise, 6 story buildings
with over-crowded roads, noise, congestion and the loss of the
atmosphere which brought him to Tustin in the first place.
Mr. Brotemarkle responded that in analyzing the project and looking at
the General Plan of the community, some of the major points of the
General Plan which were adopted in the 60's was to attempt to obtain a
distinguishable community identity related to community pride and co-
hesiveness of political, social and economic factors; to revitalize
the economic health of the Town Center area; and upgrade the economic
base and reputation of the community based upon the quantity and
quality of professional office space in commercial centers. This
particular project fits into those particular goals of the community.
Betty Truit, questioned why they needed the concept of Town Center in
Tustin and what was the ultimate plan for downtown Tustin.
Chairman Sharp asked staff if the development was in keeping with the
General Plan and the Zoning Ordinance or was this something new and
different from what they had done before.
Mr. Brotemarkle referred again to the General Plan and said
additionally the property was in conformance with zoning established
for it. The Redevelopment Plan was adopted in 1976 and zoning derives
originally from the General Plan.
Mrs. Truit mentioned the 10 story Senior Citizens Development of
several years ago and said she was under the impression at that time
the Council adopted a regulation limiting height of buildings in
downtown Tustin.
Mr. Brotemarkle remarked that the question had been asked at the last
meeting and there was no highrise restriction or policy adopted by ei-
ther the City Planning Agency or Council restricting structures to
three stories based on the Senior Citizens proposal.
Greg Butcher, California Pacific Properties, 17941 Mitchell Avenue,
Irvine, said they have a proposed mixed use development to develop
certain amounts of office, retail, financial, entertainment and
restaurant space. In doing so they feel the level of development
required was extremely important given the economics, and pointed out
there was more open space on the ground level because of the height.
Richard Fisher, said he was a 7 year resident of Tustin and the
indicated there would be a traffic increase of 3 percent.
Chairman Sharp said it would depend on the intersection; each inter-
section close to the proposed development was measured and its capaci-
ty determined and none of the capacities were reached.
Mr. Fisher asked what was the criteria used for determining the capa-
city and was it based on the population of the office buildings.
Jack Greenspan, Traffic Consultant, replied that they base projected
future traffic on similar uses of other buildings and the
denominator is normally square footage. If you have an office
building of so many thousand square feet, you have a traffic
generation rate of so many vehicle trips a day for that number of
square feet and that is translated into peak traffic hours. Mr.
Greenspan went on to describe how the traffic study was conducted and
the total number for this project was 9,300 more car trips a day would
be added to the entire traffic system which makes the assumption that
all the people who come to and from the project are new traffic. The
intersection is the key in analyzing traffic because that is where
traffic has to stop. Mr: Greenspan spoke at some length about the
principle of the "Level of Traffic Service" concept.
Mr. Edgar commented that basically there was published record by the
Transportation Commission that Intersection I-5 and 1-55 were the
worst intersections in the entire County and that pressure has been
applied to Caltrans and the County to get the legislation that would
create a separate District so that tax money will be used in this
community. Perhaps in three or four years those particular
intersections can be improved. It is a problem of certain
intersections irrelevant of this project and the project has to stand
on its own in terms of traffic generation. '
There were additional comments from the audience regarding freeway
traffic, the need for additional stop lights and the condition of the
streets when the development would be under construction and the
streets torn up, impeding traffic.
Mr. Greenspan stated that temporary situations were not taken into
consideration when computing the traffic studies because those condi-
tions were not permanent.
There was a question as to whether the office space, either built or
planned, would double by 1988 as a result of the proposed project.
Chairman Sharp said if the project was approved then it would be a
part of the doubling, but if it wasn't approved and subsequently addi-
tional projects were constructed, piecemeal or whatever, even on
the same site, then by the end of the decade the end result would be
approximately the same sum of projected additional office spaces.
This project would supply approximately 33% of the projected growth of
required office space by the year 1988.
Mr. Moses said he would like to know if the City was relying on the
traffic engineering of Mr. Greenspan or does the City Street Depart-
ment have its own studies that are germaine to this instance.
Chairman Sharp explained that where an E.I.R. impact study has to be
made, it has to go through a formal process. This is a costly process
and in an effort to save money the City causes the developer to
produce and pay for it, but that first draft doesn't get to the public
until the City's staff has had an opportunity to review it in context
with their own planning documents. Since Mr. Ledendecker, the City
Engineer, was not present, Chairman Sharp suggested Mr. Moses' concern
be recorded for answer at the continued hearing on the validity of the
studies that the consulting engineer of the applicant has made and the
process the City has gone through to validate that.
Mr. Hoestery summarized 3 areas of concern: 1) the necessity for the
buildings, what market studies have been performed and do the
demographics support the need for this, especially in the area of
office space, theatres and restaurants (what type and what market
would they serve); 2) with regard to height - is a four story building
that is unstructured or unbroken and isn't designed in terraces as'
imposing on a community as a six story building that is; and 3) is the
traffic problem that is imposed on the community changed to a level
far worse because of the project or are they experiencing traffic
problems whether or not a development goes in.
NOTE: Mr. Saltarelli arrived and was counted present.
There was a lengthy discussion on the Redevelopment funds the proposed
project would generate, how that would benefit the City, where the
money would be spent in the community and whether this consideration
offset any disadvantages-of the project.
There was a general discussion of Tustin's long range General Plan;
how the General Plan goals are projected, traffic impacts on Main
Street and whether this street would ultimately be considered for wi-
dening and/or reduced parking. Also discussed was the method of noti-
fying the residents of Tustin about proposed projects.
Mr. Huston informed the Agency that the Orange County Fire Depart-
ment's fire prevention and protection apparatus, in addition to the
proposed project's life support systems built into the building, were
sufficient and there was adequate fire fighting capabilities overall.
Mr. Butcher was requested by Chairman Sharp to reinvestigate the
height of the proposed buildings and inform Council at the continued
public hearing whether or not they were prepared to lower the
buildings and if so to what extent and to try and furnish the Council
with a list of buildings within proximity of accessible viewing, which
were comparable architecturally to the size, scale and density of his
proposed structures.
A petition of 88 signatures of
submitted as evidence that the
tion, including the table model
ly by the development and they
the residents of Tustin Gardens was
applicant had made a detailed presenta-
, to those persons affected most close-
supported the project as presented.
ADJOURNMENT:
The Agency unanimously adjourned the workshop to the continued public
hearing at a regular meeting of the Planning Agency on December 7,
1981 at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers, in order to give the appli-
cant an opportunity to review the concerns brought up and address
those concerns at that time.
Chairman, James B. Sharp
Maria Ivory
Recording Secretary
TUSTIN PLANNING AGENCY
Minutes of Regular Meeting
November 2, 1981
The Planning Agency held a regular meeting Monday, November 2, lg81,
at 3:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the City Hall, 300 Centennial
Way, Tustin, California.
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Sharp at 3:07 p.m.
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Mr. Hoesterey and the invocation
was given by Mr. Saltarelli.
ROLL CALL
Present:
Edgar, Hoesterey, Kennedy, Saltarelli, Sharp
Absent: None
Also present:
Michael Brotemarkle, Community Development Director
William Huston, City Manager
James Rourke, City Attorney
Maria Ivory, Recording Secretary
MINUTES
The minutes of the regular meeting held October 21, 1981, were
approved with the following correction: Page 5, Paragraph 2 should
read "Agency" and not "Council" in all places where appropriate.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
1. Ordinance for Introduction
An Ordinance to amend the Planned Development Standards and the
Multiple Family Resi.dential District(s) Standards of the Tustin
Zoning Code.
Mr. Bretemarkle presented the staff report and said the issue was
concerning height limitations of R-2, R-3, and R-4 districts. The
proposed Ordinance has been reviewed at the previous meeting under New
Business and modified to ordinance form by the City Attorney. The
primary emphasis has been that appropriate Agency review be
established on all multiple residential projects not just
condominiums.
The Public Hearing portion on Ordinance No. 862 was was opened. There
being no one to speak the hearing was declared closed.
RESOLUTION NO. 2005." ......... A RESOLUTION OF THE TUSTIN PLANNING
AGENCY RECOb~IENDING TO THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTION OF ORDINANCE NO. 862,
AMENDING THE HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS IN THE MULTIPLE FAMILY
DISTRICTS ....... "Moved by Kennedy to adopt Resolution No. 2005. The
motion was seconded by Edgar.
Under discussion Mrs. Kennedy asked if the Planned Development
District (P-D) as mentioned by name in the Ordinance also includes
Planned Community District (P-C). Mr. Brotemarkle replied that it
does not include P-C and only applies to residential districts, and
his directive from the City Council with R-2, R-3, and R-4 was to make
these districts compatible to the P-D district. He pointed out all
uses in the P.C. were subject to use permit review.
There was a discussion regarding heights as measured from curb grades
and Mr. Brotemarkle commented that where there was an undulation or
differential they are measured by taking an average of grade, but in
flat areas it would be measured essentially from top of curb. He
stated this definition of how the height is measured was in the Code.
Mr. Saltarelli said he felt it was premature to vote because they had
not defined the terms in stating what height means. There was no
Planning Agency Minutes
November 2, 1981
Page 2
clear definition of underground parking and therefore to approve the
amendments to height limitations had no meaning without knowing what
height is.
Mrs. Kennedy said she did agree there needed to be a consistent
measure of height, however, she did not want to wait for everything to
be completely perfect because she was afraid of what might get through
in the meantime. City Attorney was asked if there was any legal
recourse if a building were built higher than what was approved. Mr.
Rour~e responded that the question was complex but basically if the
City staff issues a building permit and authorizes construction, the
property owner was pretty well privileged to build in conformance with
those permits issued. If there was a problem with staff following the
desires of the Council then that is something which needs to be worked
out in-house. The City's position would be difficult in forcing a
builder to conform to anything other than the permits and plans
approved.
Mr. Saltarelli commented that Sections 3 and 4 of the proposed
Ordinance were not appropriate.
Substitute motion by Saltarelli to continue the matter to the December
7, 1981 meeting for further clarification. The motion was seconded by
Kennedy.
Under discussion Mr. Hoesterey said he could not support the
substitute motion because there was an inequity between building
apartments and building condominiums and would like to see the
original motion approved with the understanding that they would start
amending it to satisfy the original intent that an apartment house
does not go up next to an R-1 building so there would at least be a
stop gap in the interim.
The substitute motion carried by the following vote:
AYES: Kennedy, Saltarelli and Sharp
NOES: Hoesterey and Edgar
PUBLIC CONCERNS: None
STAFF CONCERNS: None
AGENCY CONCERNS: None
ADJOURNMENT:
At 3:30 p.m. upon motion of Edgar the Agency adjourned to November 16,
1981 at 3:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers. The motion was seconded by
Kennedy and carried unanimously.
Chairman, James B. Sharp
Maria Ivory
Recording Secretary