HomeMy WebLinkAbout01 PC Minutes 12-13-04
7:05 p.m.
Given
All present
Staff present
None
Approved
Continued to the
January 10, 2005
Planning Commission
meeting
ITEM #1
MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
TUSTIN PLANNING COMMISSION
DECEMBER 13, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
Elizabeth Binsack, Community Development Director
Doug Holland, Assistant City Attorney
Doug Anderson, Senior Project Manager-Transportation
Terry Lutz, Principal Engineer
Chad Ortlieb, Associate Planner
Matt West, Associated Planner
Eloise Harris, Recording Secretary
PUBLIC CONCERNS
CONSENT CALENDAR
1.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - NOVEMBER 22, 2004,
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
It was moved by Pontious, seconded by Menard, to approve the
Consent Calendar. Motion carried 5-0.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2.
CONTINUED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 04-011 AND
DESIGN REVIEW 04-009 TO ALLOW A 2,490 SQUARE
FOOT TEMPORARILY PERMITTED MODULAR
BUILDING TO REMAIN IN USE FOR TWO (2) YEARS
AS A CLASSROOM BUILDING AND TO CONSTRUCT
FOR A 5,950 SQUARE FOOT FREE STANDING
OFFICE AND MEETING ROOM BUILDING FOR THE
CHURCH. THIS PROJECT IS LOCATED IN THE
PUBLIC AND INSTITUTIONAL (P&I) ZONING
DISTRICT.
RECOMMENDATION
That the Planning Commission approve Alternative 2 for
Conditional Use Permit 04-011 and Design Review 04-
009 by adopting Resolution No. 3935.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 1
7:07
Ortlieb
Director
Nielsen
Aric Gless, architect,
representing St.
Cecilia Church
Menard
Don Brockschmidt,
14702 Charloma Drive,
Tustin
The Public Hearing opened.
Presented the staff report.
Added that the applicant has expressed a preference for
Alternative 3; since the resolution does not address this
alternative, it may be necessary to continue this item to the next
meeting in order for staff to present a revised resolution and
conditions of approval.
Invited the applicant to the lectern.
Stated that the planning staff was very helpful is assisting the
applicant with the issues raised at the earlier Planning
Commission meeting; Father MacCarthy, St. Cecilia's pastor has
stated the one-story design presented in Alternative 3 is now the
preferred solution; Mr. Brockschmidt did not return telephone
calls made by the applicant; Alternative 3 would eliminate the
concerns expressed by Mr. Brockschmidt at a prior Planning
Commission meeting; the four parking stalls that will be lost to
the one-story design would not be a factor because there are
more spaces than required; the shading of the one-story building
would not affect Mr. Brockschmitdt's yard because the mature
trees in his yard cast more shade than the building would; the
easement is on the residential side and not an issue on the
Church property; the temporary buildings on the various schools
in Tustin are clearly temporary buildings that still have the
plywood skirt at the bottom and are sitting on jacks with ramps
going up to them; the modular building on the St. Cecelia site is
at the ground, is seismically anchor bolted to a concrete
foundation in the ground; landscaping includes mature trees
surrounding the structure; the structure is as permanent as
anything in the City; since the temporary structure is in constant
use, the applicant is requesting at least a two-year extension of
the building.
Commented that the Planning Commission received a copy of
Fr. MacCarthy's letter pleading that the modular building be
allowed as a permanent structure; the City has no jurisdiction
over schools; the conditional use permit expired in 2000; nothing
has been done; the Planning Commission is not trying to prove
anything, but only to assure that no precedent is set.
Stated he is a neighbor of Fr. MacCarthy; of the three
alternatives, he favors Alternative 2; the third alternative would
be intrusive to two other homes; if Alternative 3 is allowed, the
distance between the building and the wall should be 19 feet
rather than 10 feet; the Church seems to be manipulating the
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 2
Sheila Fiorenza, 178
North A Street, Tustin
City into continuing the two-year extensions that allow the
temporary building to remain on the site.
Stated she was the parish representative for St. Cecelia's
Cursillo, a group that uses the Salmon Center; meetings are
difficult to schedule because the facility is always booked by
various community groups; the fact that the building is temporary
does not mean that it is right to tear down a perfectly good
building that is used by the Church but also serves the
community; allowing the extension will not set a precedent of
allowing similar buildings at other locations; the crowding and
strain that has been put on Tustin from the ongoing development
should allow for exceptions in cases such as this.
Thomas Collins, Stated he is a member of St. Cecilia's parish; all the Church
18622 Hillhaven Drive, facilities are booked throughout the day; if the modular building
Tustin were to be lost at this time, it might be necessary to impose on
the City to provide meeting rooms.
Eric Lenning, 17966
Irvine Boulevard,
Tustin
7:32 p.m.
Pontious
Floyd
Stated he has been a St. Cecelia parishioner for about five
years; during that time, the modular section has been used to its
fullest capacity by 4,000 families; Monsignor Salmon is very near
and dear to the parish because he was the first pastor of St.
Cecelia's and also started their Knights of Columbus chapter; the
modular structure is a part of history; it seems as though the
distinction between modular and permanent is a fine line; there
should be a better alternative to the impasse than removing this
structure.
The Public Hearing closed.
Indicated that she would be in support of Alternative 2; if the
applicant prefers Alternative 3, it will be necessary to have staff
look at the proposal again; perhaps the Planning Commission
should allow the two-year extension for the modular building and
additional extensions with inspections, without returning to the
Planning Commission for the whole process again.
Stated that he agrees with Commissioner Pontious regarding the
design of Alternative 2 or Alternative 3, with staff review and
return to the Planning Commission; the fact that the modular
buildings are in use seven days a week is not a factor; the
precedent-setting of modular buildings is the issue; while these
may be nicer than the School District's, the City does not have
the ability to require the District to comply; the two-year extension
should be allowed, but automatic renewal every two years
should not be allowed; the Church should have a plan to replace
the modular buildings; while building space is limited in the City
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 3
and the costs are high, modular buildings are not the answer to
this problem.
Lee
Stated he agreed with Commissioners Floyd and Pontious; he
did not study Alternative 3 as well as he did Alternative 2, which
seemed like a good compromise of the issues presented at the
prior meeting; the two-year extension would be acceptable, but
the Church should make a good faith effort to replace that
building.
Menard
Indicated he has no preference between Alternatives 2 or 3; it is
up to the Church which option to pursue; the shadow studies
were helpful; while he understands the argument to keep the
modular building, he firmly believes the building must go.
Nielsen
Noted that it seemed to be the Commission consensus to allow
the modular for the two-year extension; the surety bond
(Condition 1.9) should be eliminated.
Director
Stated that approval of Alternative 2 would allow adoption of the
resolution, and the surety bond could be eliminated
Nielsen
Suggested that, if the applicant chooses Alternative 3, the staff
will need to work out the details and the item should be
continued to a later meeting.
Director
Noted the continuance would be the only item for the December
2ih meeting.
Pontious
Suggested a continuance to the first meeting in January.
Director
Indicated that would allow staff enough time and the next
meeting would be January 10, 2005.
Mr. Gless
Stated a continuance to January 10, 2005, would be preferable
to the.applicant.
Menard
Referred to page 6, Item D.d. of Resolution No. 3935 and
suggested that an exemption for holy days of obligation should
be included.
It was moved by Pontious, seconded by Floyd, to continue this
item to the first meeting in January and that staff should come
back with an analysis of Alternative 3 and also eliminating the
surety bond. Motion carried 5-0.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 4
Voted 3-2 to allow the
drive-through; staff
is to bring a revised
resolution to the
January 10, 2005
Planning Commission
meeting; this resolution
will be a Consent
Calendar item
7:43 p.m.
West
Nielsen
Kenny Dewan,
applicant, owner and
operator of the Tustin
Farmer Boys
Nielsen
Mr. Dewan
Floyd
Mr. Dewan
Floyd
3.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 04-026 AUTHORIZING
CONSTRUCTION OF A DRIVE-THROUGH LANE IN
CONJUNCTION WITH AN EXISTING 2,983 SQUARE
FOOT FAST-FOOD RESTAURANT ON THE
NORTHWEST CORNER OF PROSPECT AVENUE AND
FIRST STREET. THIS PROJECT IS LOCATED IN THE
DESIGNATED "COMMERCIAL" WITHIN THE FIRST
STREET SPECIFIC PLAN ZONING DISTRICT.
RECOMMENDATION:
That the Planning Commission adopt Resolution No. 3940
denying Conditional Use Permit 04-026 to construct a
drive-through lane in conjunction with an existing 2,983
square foot fast-food restaurant, on the northwest corner
of Prospect Avenue and First Street or take other action
as deemed appropriate.
The Public Hearing opened.
Presented the staff report.
Invited the applicant to the lectern.
Thanked staff for their assistance and support of this project,
which started in March 2002; indicated he had a written
statement that he wished to read and which is included herein by
reference.
Asked for an estimate of how much the business would increase
with the installation of a drive-through window.
Answered that the average Farmer Boys does about 20 percent
of their total business in the drive-through lane; the estimate for
this location is a 15 percent increase.
Questioned whether the proposed change in the hours of
operation would be for the restaurant or the drive-through.
Indicated that he was open to both; it is the neighbors who feel
that the restaurant should be closed an hour earlier with the
addition of the drive-through; he is willing to compromise.
Stated his understanding that certain restaurants close the drive-
through windows earlier but may keep the inside operation open
later; the interior hours should be allowed to be later; and, asked
what the removal the patio dining area would accomplish.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 5
Mr. Dewan
Menard
West
Patrick Stroupe, 185
Lockwood, Tustin
Don Melcher, 14072
Windsor Place,
Tustin
John Beck, 1072
Triumphal, Santa Ana
Answered that the original concerns were the patio dining and
the drive-though lane; if it must be one or the other, he would
rather have the drive-through lane; this location cannot survive
without a drive-through lane.
Asked staff for the McDonald's hours.
Stated McDonald's is open until 1 0:30 p.m.
Stated he opposes the drive-though just as he did on the original
application; he did not appreciate Mr. Dewan's repeated
attempts to contact him and his wife by telephone to set up
meetings to talk about the project; one of the promises the City
made was no construction activity after dark; just before
Thanksgiving, the company hired to do the job poured concrete
from 6 p.m. until 11 p.m.; the police would not shut down
operation of the generators and the lights and remove the
contractor from the property; only a chain link fence separated
his back yard from the Farmer Boys property; the noise, exhaust,
pollution, and traffic are ongoing concerns for his neighborhood;
it will be impossible for a full-sized car to make an 180-degree
turn in the parking area; raw sewage recently flowed into the
parking lot, requiring his family to leave their house for four hours
because the smell was so nauseating; power-washing was
required to clean the parking lot; the approval of a drive-through
would require more construction; given the past incidents, the
neighborhood should not be subjected to this again; the staff
report states the noise level for residential properties to be 55
decibels from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. and 50 decibels from
10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., but the highest noise level to be allowed
would be 62 decibels-a distinct contradiction; the report also
states the speaker board would not exceed 90 decibels; the
City's promises regarding noise, light, traffic, pollution have not
been kept; the smell of fried food permeates the neighborhood
24/7; this drive-through should not be allowed.
Wished everyone happy holidays; he is a manufacturer's
representative by trade and has called on small businesses all
his life; he supports the drive-through because it will make Mr.
Dewan competitive in the current environment.
Stated he is a friend of Brian McGinnis who lives at 165
Lockwood which is two houses down from Patrick; Mr. McGinnis
could not be at tonight's meeting and wanted his comments
heard; all the comments made by Patrick regarding the
inconveniences to the neighborhood are also concerns of Mr.
McGinnis; the increased hours and the drive-through will change
the makeup of the restaurant's patrons; it is now a family dining
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 6
Tiffany Stroupe, 185
Lockwood, Tustin
Leslie Pena, 165
Lockwood, Tustin
Alicia Watkins, 195
Lockwood, Tustin
Mr. Dewan
restaurant; a drive-through may bring undesirable elements to
the area, which is a major concern given the number of families
in the neighborhood.
Stated this proposal is the same one the neighbors objected to
before; the picture of the Farmer Boys property that was shown
in the staff report provides the illusion of a much larger space
than actually exists at the site; the space will be very congested,
making a 180-degree turn difficult; putting the neighborhood
through more of the same is inappropriate; there is no business
at this restaurant at nine o'clock at night, so closing earlier would
be more cost-effective; closing earlier as a "concession" makes
no sense; she wrote letters on a number of occasions to staff
and members of the Planning Commission before earlier
meetings; calls from Mr. Dewan were unwelcome; since her
father suffered a head injury and passed away today, it should
be clear how important this issue is for her to attend the meeting
this evening.
Indicated she is new to the community and resides adjacent to
Farmer Boys; the traffic is a serious issue; several accidents
have occurred at First and Prospect; more cars going in and out
will increase the risks; cars turn left onto Prospect all the time;
her children are allowed to walk to the restaurant and that
driveway is a constant worry; young families are moving into the
neighborhood and should not have to be concerned for the
safety of their children; this is primarily a residential
neighborhood that does not generate a lot of business for this
type of restaurant.
Stated she is new to the neighborhood and agreed with the
comments made by her neighbors; Mr. Dewan stated he is losing
money but finds a way to give back to the community; trying to
win over the community to get votes to allow the drive-through is
not appreciated; the trash in the yards is already unbelievable;
traffic is a nightmare; no one is in the restaurant after eight
o'clock at night; it seems a drive-through would make little
difference; it was a bad business move to put that business in
that location.
Responded that:
. The construction complaint was true; the City fined the
general contractor, and Farmer Boys wrote a letter of
apology to the City and the residents.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 7
. The sewage spill was the result of the ongoing Orange
County sewage project along Prospect; it was the
County's obligation to correct the problem.
. The purpose for calling the residents was that other
community members encouraged him to do so; the
intention was to find a comfortable approach to solving
the issues.
. The residents bought their homes next to a commercial
street and understood this at the time of purchase; the site
was formerly a Mobil gas station; there is a car repair
shop nearby; there are a McDonald's and Der
Wienerschnitzel nearby.
. As a conscientious business owner, he proposed
compromises; the next tenant might not be as
accommodating.
. As a restaurant owner, it is important to reach out to the
customers in the community to create good will and show
the restaurant is there.
Floyd
Asked for further definition of the menu board noise level.
Mr. Dewan
Answered this would be a drive-through video confirmation that
was developed by Delphi Systems in Costa Mesa; it has been
placed in other cities with similar concerns when the commercial
use is close to a residential use; the plan was to eliminate noise
between the order taker and the customer; the customer places
the order through the menu board, but the order taker does not
repeat the order; a video display eliminates about 70 percent of
the noise.
8:20 p.m.
The Public Hearing closed.
Pontious
Stated she understood the neighbors' concerns; having only one
alternative available makes this a difficult decision; Mr. Dewan
has been an involved business owner; she was torn about what
to do.
Lee
Noted that he was not on the Commission when this matter
originally came before the Commission; the situation does not
seem conducive to another driveway off Prospect; the only
entrance that seems logical would be off First Street; people will
still go in off Prospect and create problems; congestion at the
corner of First and Prospect would continue; while he
appreciates Mr. Dewan's attempts to please everyone, it does
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 8
not seem the current design will be conducive to a drive-through;
unless there is another alternative, he is against project.
Menard
Indicated this is a tough decision; he was surprised the drive-
through was not allowed on the original proposal; it is hard for a
fast-food restaurant to operate without a drive-through; the
turning radius does look tight; staff may need to study that a bit to
see if there is anything in the radius that could be adjusted for the
larger SUV vehicles; this is a land use issue within the First
Street Specific Plan; the property owner has a right to apply for a
drive-through; the applicant is willing to compromise to make the
residents happy; the existing facility was built with a drive-
through in mind; all the mitigation measures are in place; the wall
is there; it meets or exceeds the noise ordinance; this applicant
should be allowed to have the drive-through.
Floyd
Stated the food smells will not change with a drive-through; the
left-hand turn onto Prospect remains a concern and the City
should be enforcing that no left turn; the suggestion that Farmer
Boys was buying votes in support of this drive-through is
offensive; this owner has been a very good tenant of Tustin and
a smart business owner who understands the outreach
mechanisms of the charities he supports; it is surprising the
drive-through was not approved with the initial application; staff's
recommendation should be reversed and the drive-through
allowed with the compromises proposed by the applicant.
Nielsen
Stated he was on the Planning Commission when this proposal
was first presented; as Commissioner Menard stated, this is a
land use issue; traffic was an issue with the proposed drive-
through due to the U-turn feature and the left turns onto
Prospect; these issues remain; staff's recommendation should
be upheld; the neighbors should be aware that any new owner
might be worse.
Pontious
Agreed with the concerns regarding traffic but supported the
application approving the drive-through; and, suggested that staff
bring a revised resolution back to the Planning Commission as a
Consent item.
Director
Stated the applicant desired a decision be made tonight; if the
consensus of the Commission is to approve the application, staff
recommends the item be continued; staff generally understand
what the Commission's concerns are and can incorporate them
in a revised resolution.
Menard
Asked if a barrier could be erected on Prospect to prevent the
left-hand turns.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 9
Director
Answered the traffic engineer should look at those types of
improvements independently.
Menard
Added that he hopes the patio will remain.
Floyd, Pontious
Agreed that the patio should stay.
Holland
Stated it would be appropriate for the Commission to approve
the project and direct staff to prepare a resolution approving the
project with appropriate findings and conditions of approval to be
submitted back to the Commission at the next meeting.
Nielsen
Suggested that a vote should be taken on the existing resolution.
It was moved by Pontious, seconded by Menard, to deny the
adoption of Resolution No. 3935 and direct staff to prepare a
new resolution allowing the drive-though. Motion carried 3-2.
None
REGULAR BUSINESS
STAFF CONCERNS
4.
REPORT OF ACTIONS TAKEN AT THE DECEMBER 6,
2004, CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS.
Director reported
The City Council approved the Makena Tentative Parcel Map.
The Council took action on the Final Tract Map for John Laing
Homes (Tustin Field II).
The Council certified Supplement #1 to the Final EIS/EIR for the
extension of Tustin Ranch Road; the Public Works Department
was directed to move forward with the plans and specifications
for that project.
The Council had the first reading of the code amendment related
to massage regulations.
Doug Anderson, the Traffic Project Manager, was in the
audience to make a special introduction.
Anderson
Introduced Terry Lutz, the City's new Principal Traffic Engineer;
and, indicated Mr. Lutz may be attending future Planning
Commission meetings in Mr. Anderson's place.
Planning Commission
Welcomed Mr. Lutz.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 10
COMMISSION CONCERNS
Lee
Wished everyone happy holidays.
Menard
Asked staff if there is a timeline regarding Newport Avenue going
out to Edinger.
Director
Stated the project is moving forward; and, noted the City
Engineer will be presenting a seven-year CI P update
presentation before the Planning Commission in the near future.
Menard
Wished everyone happy holidays.
Thanked staff for their work on tonight's items.
Floyd
Echoed Commission Menard's comments regarding staff's hard
work.
Stated he empathizes with the residents who live near the
Farmer Boys site.
Offered his condolences to the Dick Edgar family; and, noted he
was a pillar of the Tustin community for many years.
Wished everyone happy holidays.
Pontious
Thanked staff for their work.
Added her holiday wishes.
Requested that tonight's meeting be adjourned in memory of
Dick Edgar, former Tustin mayor and dedicated volunteer for
many years, who was tragically injured in a traffic incident and
passed away in the hospital.
Nielsen
Asked if anything is planned for the old dairy property on
Newport near the freeway.
Director
Answered there is a retail proposal for which there is draft
approval.
Nielsen
Indicated the Shakey's Pizza sign is deteriorating and needs to
be repaired as soon as possible.
Stated we grieve the loss of Ms. Stroupe's father; and, added
that he understood how difficult it was for her to address the
Commission at this time.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 11
Nielsen continued
8:50 p.m.
In Memory of
Richard "Dick" Edgar
Added his words of condolence to the Edgar family; stated his
death will be mourned by many; and, asked for a motion to
adjourn the meeting in Mr. Edgar's memory.
ADJOURNMENT
The next regular meeting of the Planning Commission is
scheduled for Monday, January 10, 2005, at 7:00 p.m. in the
Clifton Miller Community Center at 300 Centennial Way.
Minutes - Planning Commission December 13, 2004 - Page 12